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The Republic of Burthorpe

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Hazbollah

Hazbollah

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Kex said :
Smell Teller said :
Burthorpe is a republic


Oh, cool.

Smell Teller said :
Burthorpe is a republic, which works for the common good, under the guidance and absolute leadership of its Lord Protector.


what

Smell Teller said :
Burthorpe is a republic

Smell Teller said :
absolute leadership of its Lord Protector.


what


why you posting on a dead thread g
All these sins disguised as blessings

22-Jun-2017 21:45:24

Melkarth
Sep Member 2022

Melkarth

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A republic is not necessarily a democracy. In its most rudimentary form, it is simply a polity wherein policy formation is devised with consideration to the general health of the body politic. It is rule for the People, not necessarily by or of the people. It can be democratic, oligarchical, or even monarchic such as this was.

Read some Plato scrub.

24-Jun-2017 01:11:10 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2017 01:12:07 by Melkarth

KDF-Luth

KDF-Luth

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Melkarth said :
A republic is not necessarily a democracy. In its most rudimentary form, it is simply a polity wherein policy formation is devised with consideration to the general health of the body politic. It is rule for the People, not necessarily by or of the people. It can be democratic, oligarchical, or even monarchic such as this was.

Read some Plato scrub.


Go back to the shadows
; )

24-Jun-2017 17:27:53

Kex

Kex

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Melkarth said :
A republic is not necessarily a democracy. In its most rudimentary form, it is simply a polity wherein policy formation is devised with consideration to the general health of the body politic. It is rule for the People, not necessarily by or of the people. It can be democratic, oligarchical, or even monarchic such as this was.

Read some Plato scrub.


Crown Republics exist, but there's either usually a divide in power or (like in modern times) the crown is ceremonial, no? "Absolute power", meaning...well, absolute power, means that there's certainly no room for republican aspects.

Also, I know this thread is dead, I just want to argue with Dan. I HATE THAT GUY
I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast

Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold

25-Jun-2017 00:15:21

Melkarth
Sep Member 2022

Melkarth

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The modern form of a republic involves the separation of powers, but that was an idea of Montesquieu during the Enlightenment. Republics existed in many forms before such constitutional notions of republican government arose. Venice, Amalfi, Genoa, and Pisa, for example, were all famous and, at one point or another, powerful Mediterranean states. They were all oligarchies, like most Italian states before the French started messing around, but they were also "republics." What made them a republic? ... Well, uhm, they called themselves one, firstly. Secondly, like Florence, they held elections. The Serene Doge of Venice was rather absolute, but fundamentally he was elected. The Medici were technically elected Lords of Florence, but moreso than anything, even more than the Venetian republic, Florence looked more like a monarchy.

Now, their elections of course looked nothing like ours. They were held rather secretively, and the electorate consisted of important land owners - nobles and guilds, mostly, as well as political appointees, and such positions were generally hereditary in practice if not by law. The rulers of these Italian city-states, however, were not constitutionally endorsed with absolute powers. They wielded almost absolute power via politicking and the occasional use of force. These oligarchical quasi-monarchic republics held none of the republic aspects we generally require before classifying something as a republic. They certainly were not democracies.

If we go further back, to Athens, we encounter something much more similar - the Boule, which was manned by citizens essentially conscripted by lot. It's p interesting, and an example of a democratic republic pre-enlightenment. In his proposition for reform of an Athens he felt to be weakened by this democracy, Plato proposed his "Republic" led by philosopher kings. In this dialogue, Plato defines a republic, essentially, as a form of government foremost responsible for delivering a just society.

26-Jun-2017 10:28:50

Melkarth
Sep Member 2022

Melkarth

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Plato's republic was fundamentally anti-democratic, and anti-separation of powers. The philosopher kings ruled as an oligarchical, hereditary council, with the sole responsibility of delivering just order for a just city-state and just man, to provide for prosperity and pacifying the immortal soul. He delves quite deeply into what exactly is justice and how society should be organised, but for the purpose of telling you you're wrong: Plato says so, and so would the Italian city-states.

I'll admit that this absolutist regime is a step further, but if we want to get into that, you needn't look any farther than the Protectorate (the Commonwealth of England, Scotland, and Ireland). Cromwell's Parliamentarian state-turned-absolutist-dictatorship was, and is, considered (by the contemporary standard) a republic. Why? Because it had a parliament which technically invested the Lord Protector, and because the Lord Protector nominally led the nation in the interests of the People. It was not government of or by the People, but for the People.

So basically, to be a republic, all you have to do is call yourself a republic and say you're operating in the public interest, and call your head of state something that doesn't have a connection with a different form of government.

Everything is spectrums.

26-Jun-2017 10:31:56 - Last edited on 26-Jun-2017 10:38:29 by Melkarth

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