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Mandatory ID Requirement

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Aeroxmaster

Aeroxmaster

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Keeping my cards close to my chest at this time ;)

My time is taken from me by important things which means I don't have as much time these days to read in detail other people's takes and respond all the time. But given you've mentioned what you've mentioned, I'm gonna check back through my history and give a few additional responses given today is my day off. I'll see what's amassed.

On the topic of it "not working as planned" - why do you think that's the case?

The Police National Computer is a very, very useful tool. We have the Disclosure and Barring Service which is also very useful and we can record necessary details about people's activities. Indeed, Counter Terrorism has many more details about an individual than an individual themselves is aware of.

Anyway, I'm not gonna get drawn into Counter Terrorism topic on this thread. It is very well known that there are unscrupulous individuals that use the dark web and, overtly, use the open web to troll people. Katie Price is a very well known celebrity in the UK if you were not aware. I support what she says: there needs to be more accountability. The Internet can be a Wild Wild West, and given we are being ordered to stay at home, more and more people use it and start carrying out acts that would be an offence that is easily reported in the real world.

I see that her petition has got almost 140k signatures, which is more than enough for it to be taken very seriously.

14-Mar-2021 19:09:10 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2021 19:47:48 by Aeroxmaster

BreakingBad
May Member 2014

BreakingBad

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The management of police information MoPI tells us how to record information, what we can record and for how long. The PNC would not allow us to simply 'store' information on everyone's internet history, and the sharing of information between forces is not as simple as having a national ID centre for peoples ID, for one it wouldn't be lawful and it never will.

Facebook / Other social media do allow you to put fake names on in certain circumstances, whilst there needs to be accountability, it isn't practical to implement, to maintain, to enforce, and to fund :/

It wouldn't work as planned as there's too many defences, someone only has to turn around and go that's not my account, someone borrowed my phone, cause any bit of doubt and they are unlikely to be prosecuted. That's not to say it doesn't form character, intelligence, information and future investigations.

**Everything stated is already public information by a google search :)
I wish I liked Quests as much as I love AFKing

14-Mar-2021 19:18:44 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2021 19:20:39 by BreakingBad

Aeroxmaster

Aeroxmaster

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Yeah it might not allow police to store that information right now, but in principle creating some sort of system where people's internet identification is stored isn't beyond the scope of possibility.

Also, storage of personal information is regulated by the Data Protection Act 2018. This is the same Act that Jagex and the Police have to abide by, granted that there are certain differences when it comes to Police handling data.

They don't necessarily have to hold large quantities of internet history usage. Either way ISPs already do this. The idea is simply that an internet screen name is traceable to a form of real life identification. I do not believe in any way, shape or form that that is impossible. If a central governmental organisation can hold everyone's driving licence identification, it is not inconceivable that another or similar governmental organisation can hold everyone's internet "licence identification".

And there is a Police National Computer and then there's the Local Police Station computer. If a name check is run on someone anywhere in the country there is basic information accessible by all forces from my knowledge.

Edit: I notice you included reference to "intelligence system" afterwards. Yes, I guess this is what I'm touching upon... Wouldn't that be useful?

14-Mar-2021 19:25:05 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2021 19:49:12 by Aeroxmaster

BreakingBad
May Member 2014

BreakingBad

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Aeroxmaster said :
Yeah it might not allow police to store that information right now, but in principle creating some sort of system where people's internet identification is stored isn't beyond the scope of possibility.

Also, storage of personal information is regulated by the Data Protection Act 2018. This is the same Act that Jagex and the Police have to abide by, granted that there are certain differences when it comes to Police handling data.

They don't necessarily have to hold large quantities of internet history usage. Either way ISPs already do this. The idea is simply that an internet screen name is traceable to a form of real life identification. I do not believe in any way, shape or form that that is impossible. If a central governmental organisation can hold everyone's driving licence identification, it is not inconceivable that another or similar governmental organisation can hold everyone's internet "licence identification".

And there is a Police National Computer and then there's the Local Police Station computer. If a name check is run on someone anywhere in the country there is basic information accessible by all forces from my knowledge.

Edit: I notice you included reference to "intelligence system" afterwards. Yes, I guess this is what I'm touching upon... Wouldn't that be useful?

They've have to change the legislation to allow for any of this to happen, and due to covid they're now veery far behind so it would take years to go through if at all. There's no legitimate purpose, policing in the UK is by consent and unless the majority consented (which I don't believe they'd ever poll), would not happen anyway. We aren't a police state, human rights lawyers would have a field day. I wouldn't trust any company to be storing my personal details for employee's to 'vet' after all the scandals we have with them selling/sharing data improperly anyway
I wish I liked Quests as much as I love AFKing

14-Mar-2021 20:09:08

Aeroxmaster

Aeroxmaster

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Yeah I don't think I'd trust just any company with my personal data.

But now that you say that, sounds like this could become very easily a grand scale challenge in data protection to ensure that a system like this could be pulled off safely and securely...

Also, not everyone necessarily has to consent for such a system to be created / amended. They are already trying similar things with the Online Harms bill that's coming. It just needs to pass in the relevant chambers. The celebrity in the petition is simply saying they also need to make ID mandatory too.

They've been trying this with certain types of websites but have delayed the roll out. I don't think it inconceivable to be a reality at a certain period of time in the future for all types of websites where people log in with usernames, if there enough further online "incidents" and demands for it. Could be a matter of time. And yes ur right to bring up the human rights elements of this where people may start trying to battle against this... :|

14-Mar-2021 20:18:03

BreakingBad
May Member 2014

BreakingBad

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Aeroxmaster said :
Yeah I don't think I'd trust just any company with my personal data.

But now that you say that, sounds like this could become very easily a grand scale challenge in data protection to ensure that a system like this could be pulled off safely and securely...

Also, not everyone necessarily has to consent for such a system to be created / amended. They are already trying similar things with the Online Harms bill that's coming. It just needs to pass in the relevant chambers. The celebrity in the petition is simply saying they also need to make ID mandatory too.

They've been trying this with certain types of websites but have delayed the roll out. I don't think it inconceivable to be a reality at a certain period of time in the future for all types of websites where people log in with usernames, if there enough further online "incidents" and demands for it. Could be a matter of time. And yes ur right to bring up the human rights elements of this where people may start trying to battle against this... :|

Don't get me wrong I'm all for ensuring safety, putting victims of crime first and of course preventing crime (not in that order), but it's just far to unrealistic at this point. I've nothing to hide but I don't trust any company with my data. I think at the moment, we manage well for what we have. Many, many crimes get reported and unfortunately, sometimes there just isn't evidence, not through lack of trying. I don't believe this would add anything beneficially we can't already do. I would be interested to see any other thoughts/ideas topic as long as the community here input, amazing who see's what you post around :P
I wish I liked Quests as much as I love AFKing

14-Mar-2021 20:38:26 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2021 20:39:01 by BreakingBad

Averia Light

Averia Light

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Aeroxmaster said :
This is why you don't let other people use accounts that are in some body else's name...

I do very much believe that an ID system can still make people appropriately accountable.

It could simply add to evidential processes that already exist. People already get held accountable for things said online, but it can be harder to trace without ID. ID introduction makes this a lot easier. It can make the justice system work more effectively.

Edit: Having skim read through this thread, I am in general agreement with some posters.

ID can just be held on an encrypted system. It doesn't necessarily have to be held by the company that you're creating the account with. Could be linked to a more centralised system. It would be more useful for law enforcement purposes. Therefore even if someone got hacked, you wouldn't be able to access that type of info as it wouldn't be held by the company - it would be held where ID tends to already be held these days anyway. It is just that the central ID database that already exists also has other attachments to it such as login usernames for people.

Your username then forms part of your identity ;)

As an aside note, Discord and P-r are scum websites. They are inappropriately managed. I would not step my feet there at all. Not everyone on Discord is bad, but there is a lot of inappropriate behaviour that can go on there due to the mechanisms and policies of that website. I would have no objections to server managers there being vetted.

I am a database programmer. Who would manage such a database? Every country has their own and I definitely would vote against mine sharing personal details with every company that hosts social media - particularly since companies already sell your less personal data.

Sorry, but it is an idea that sounds great on paper, but in practice, it is completely unmanageable and creates excessive risk. And I swear I'm not going to let her know all the pain I have known

16-Mar-2021 09:34:59

Aeroxmaster

Aeroxmaster

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The Government responded.

It appears that the ability to remain anonymous will remain the case for now.

However.

Original message details are unavailable.
The police already have a range of legal powers to identify individuals who attempt to use anonymity to escape sanctions for online abuse, where the activity is illegal. Police reporting shows that in 2017/18, 96% of attempts by public authorities to identify the anonymous user of a social media account, email address or telephone, resulted in successful identification of the suspect of their investigation. The Investigatory Powers Act allows police to acquire communications data such as an email address and location of the device from which illegal anonymous abuse is sent and use it as evidence in court. The government is working with law enforcement to review whether the current powers are sufficient to tackle illegal anonymous abuse online. The outcome of that work will inform the government’s future position in relation to illegal anonymous online abuse.

- UK Government

I.e. the reality is that if Police need and want to identify someone that is anonymous, in most cases they have been able to do so already. However it may be considered some time for the future if more powers are needed to tackle illegal anonymous online abuse further.

Knowing that most people can be identified in the case of illegality is comforting, even if they are anonymous.

30-Mar-2021 18:33:58

BreakingBad
May Member 2014

BreakingBad

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Sound's about right for what happens in the real world, the need to identify that 4% remains with specialist departments, for criminals who are committing the serious, international levels of crime that the lowly response cops don't necessarily deal with day to day
I wish I liked Quests as much as I love AFKing

31-Mar-2021 00:01:31

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