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Necromancy Conjures

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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"Regardless of how much longer we have, it's better for both Jagex and players to find out what does and doesn't work early, instead of spending developer and/or player time on systems that just can't work or poor implementations. So why are you being so dismissive of learning from the time already spent by other developers?"


I see this is exactly what RS3 is doing. They are taking baby steps with skill trees on Necromancy. They are building the foundations, and of course, through the process of building it like they did with Fort Forinthry and later City of Um, as well as all kinds of 3D graphics updates, they can show to our own RS3 players' eyes they can do everything. Then they move on and grow the skill tree like how they grow our Fort and 3D graphics incrementally.

"Okay, please go to Zamorak phase 7 and have your familiar stand by a rune without attacking it while you're attacking a different rune far away. If you can do it at all, it's going to be very annoying. With a proper conjure control interface, it would be easy."


There is a familiar interface where we can command our familiar to attack or not attack.

03-Jul-2023 16:27:31

Aurelle
Jan Member 2020

Aurelle

Posts: 23 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
"Okay, please go to Zamorak phase 7 and have your familiar stand by a rune without attacking it while you're attacking a different rune far away. If you can do it at all, it's going to be very annoying. With a proper conjure control interface, it would be easy."


There is a familiar interface where we can command our familiar to attack or not attack.

That doesn't demonstrate the capability I asked for and showed the importance of.

Dilbert2001 said :
I see this is exactly what RS3 is doing. They are taking baby steps with skill trees on Necromancy. They are building the foundations, and of course, through the process of building it like they did with Fort Forinthry and later City of Um, as well as all kinds of 3D graphics updates, they can show to our own RS3 players' eyes they can do everything. Then they move on and grow the skill tree like how they grow our Fort and 3D graphics incrementally.

That doesn't say anything regarding my point about efficient use of developer and player time, nor my point about avoiding actively harmful mistakes.

In fact, lest I be insufficiently clear, none of your replies have engaged with any of my actual points.

04-Jul-2023 07:52:12

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04-Jul-2023 11:53:08

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Aurelle said :
Dilbert2001 said :
"Okay, please go to Zamorak phase 7 and have your familiar stand by a rune without attacking it while you're attacking a different rune far away. If you can do it at all, it's going to be very annoying. With a proper conjure control interface, it would be easy."


There is a familiar interface where we can command our familiar to attack or not attack.

That doesn't demonstrate the capability I asked for and showed the importance of.

Dilbert2001 said :
I see this is exactly what RS3 is doing. They are taking baby steps with skill trees on Necromancy. They are building the foundations, and of course, through the process of building it like they did with Fort Forinthry and later City of Um, as well as all kinds of 3D graphics updates, they can show to our own RS3 players' eyes they can do everything. Then they move on and grow the skill tree like how they grow our Fort and 3D graphics incrementally.

That doesn't say anything regarding my point about efficient use of developer and player time, nor my point about avoiding actively harmful mistakes.

In fact, lest I be insufficiently clear, none of your replies have engaged with any of my actual points.

I am not against your point. I just added on my comments regarding the time line and how the RS3 is already doing it. For instance, they have tested skill trees in Necromancy, not only internally but also with beta testers too. Next we will all see it in the game in a month or so. This is the New Foundation for the next generation RS3 game tree. Then with the help of the wonderful RS3 community, they can build on such solid, proven New Foundation and grow skill tree. We can then have conjurer build, necrotic berserk build, pvp build among other unfathomable customizable builds. It may take a year or many years like FFXIV.

04-Jul-2023 17:25:30

Tren
May
fmod Member
2003

Tren

Forum Moderator Posts: 92,604 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@ Kaptn Palp - Your post has been removed as flaming. While you are welcome to discuss the thread's topic, making personal attacks on other posters is not permitted here.

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04-Jul-2023 19:20:47 - Last edited on 04-Jul-2023 19:22:12 by Tren

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04-Jul-2023 19:21:33

Jeremy Cheng
Aug Member 2013

Jeremy Cheng

Posts: 25,647 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Conjuring sounds like a great way for players to bring in minions to assist in fights in addition to familiars. Sacrificing health to extend conjures is an interesting way to make the player choose between keeping their conjures longer but risking death by losing health in extending them. I can see this having great synergy with prism of loyalty to regain health lost when extending conjures and with hellhound familiar with prism of restoration. I'm expecting conjures to have a hard cap on how many you can summon at once, maybe 2 of each type of conjure for a maximum of 6 total so that it doesn't cause too much lag. I'm sure their resource cost will be balanced on release and be fair so players don't need to break the bank to upkeep them. Maybe there will be a necromancy ability that sacrifices your conjures to regain back a portion of health originally sacrificed to summon them, or boost necromantic damage when you sacrifice your conjures. I like how they're making conjures have high dpm, could be great for speedruns while using familiars. In the upcoming weeks we'll see what they have in store for reveals on necromancy.

07-Jul-2023 08:47:40

Aurelle
Jan Member 2020

Aurelle

Posts: 23 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
Aurelle said :
That doesn't say anything regarding my point about efficient use of developer and player time, nor my point about avoiding actively harmful mistakes.

In fact, lest I be insufficiently clear, none of your replies have engaged with any of my actual points.

I am not against your point. I just added on my comments regarding the time line and how the RS3 is already doing it. For instance, they have tested skill trees in Necromancy, not only internally but also with beta testers too. Next we will all see it in the game in a month or so. This is the New Foundation for the next generation RS3 game tree. Then with the help of the wonderful RS3 community, they can build on such solid, proven New Foundation and grow skill tree. We can then have conjurer build, necrotic berserk build, pvp build among other unfathomable customizable builds. It may take a year or many years like FFXIV.

No, you are still not discussing my actual points. You directly quoted me stating points about efficient use of developer and player time and avoiding harmful mistakes. Then as a "response" you proposed what is a colossal waste of developer and player time at best , and repeating those mistakes at worst, as if it were the only plausible course of action.

It is clearly not the only plausible course of action, as I opened this thread for discussion by proposing to learn from other games - their mistakes made, and developer and player time already spent - and save Jagex and RS3 players the trouble of wasting time and enduring mistakes. So your "response" is actively ignoring my points.

This is not a political debate, talking about something that seems vaguely related will earn you nothing. It merely wastes your time and that of your fellow players. If you don't want to discuss my actual points, there is no reason for you to post here.

09-Jul-2023 01:40:04

Aurelle
Jan Member 2020

Aurelle

Posts: 23 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jeremy Cheng said :
Conjuring sounds like a great way for players to bring in minions to assist in fights in addition to familiars. Sacrificing health to extend conjures is an interesting way to make the player choose between keeping their conjures longer but risking death by losing health in extending them. I can see this having great synergy with prism of loyalty to regain health lost when extending conjures and with hellhound familiar with prism of restoration. I'm expecting conjures to have a hard cap on how many you can summon at once, maybe 2 of each type of conjure for a maximum of 6 total so that it doesn't cause too much lag. I'm sure their resource cost will be balanced on release and be fair so players don't need to break the bank to upkeep them. Maybe there will be a necromancy ability that sacrifices your conjures to regain back a portion of health originally sacrificed to summon them, or boost necromantic damage when you sacrifice your conjures. I like how they're making conjures have high dpm, could be great for speedruns while using familiars.

Those are some good examples of how experienced players might find fun optimizations with the conjure systems, and what balance would have to be done for that! "AI ally" systems like the conjures have great potential to provide such depth to strong players while simultaneously helping combat beginners get started, which is one of the reasons I'm so excited for them in the "approachable and deep" design of Necromancy.

In my experience from other games, such AIs can do a great job of helping make a smooth learning journey for players. Beginner players find that the AIs defend them and are encouraged to keep playing, with which practice they can gain understanding, gradually becoming intermediate and then expert players while still using the same systems - no scary "system swap" transitions like going from Revolution to Full Manual!

09-Jul-2023 02:08:46

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