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Elite Skill Elite dud?

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H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
That's a fun rhetorical question, but let me address some of your follow-ups as I see them, because it may make sense for others too. (those are also good questions, jsyk.)

Why aren't Constitution, Slayer, and Dungeoneering elite skills?

Hot take incoming, but Constitution and Dungeoneering aren't even really skills as far as their gameplay intentions or loops would suggest. (#DungIsAMinigame.)

With HP, the early days of the game just had the number match the level. The actual life points have been multiplied by 100, but the skill kinda has never had any actual way to train it. You got HP passively while you were training your other combat skills more conscientiously. In the dictionary, "Constitution" is a person's physical state. This is actually a decent attempt at naming it on the skill end, because by doing any kind of exercise generally improves such a state, though the types of training focus on attributes like being able to life heavier objects, or run faster, etc.

Slayer, when trained in earnest, focuses more on the actual killing of opponents. That's why some of the creatures have to be dealt final blows with certain items, and why you need to actually level up Slayer to even engage certain monsters. The gameplay loop is definitely just combat, but I can definitely see where players "learn to be more efficient slayers" and "better understand certain monsters' weaknesses" through the gameplay loop.

I think what makes something an "elite" skill, based on looking at what Invention does for the player and how it is trained, can be surmised by three points.

> Deep understanding of other skills underpin the experience of the new skill. (hence, the high levels in other skills need.)

> The skill is supposed to be something that is revolutionary for the surrounding world (Invention items make impacts that change eras in history.)

> The player has a potent power increase.
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22-Apr-2023 20:51:28 - Last edited on 22-Apr-2023 20:56:39 by H 1 L D A

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RS3 doesn't emphasize on "skills". All new skills after EOC are heavily linked to other content in the game, and most of them like have strong ties to the ongoing stories.

RS3 doesn't need elite skills because they have other elite content, mind them elite mobs, elite skilling outfits etc.

The only skill not lore-based is Invention, which is also the only "elite" skill. Invention is introduced to balance the economy. The purpose is already achieved, so we don't need another elite skill that is only limited to a smaller set of higher level players.

24-Apr-2023 16:47:15

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jeremy Cheng said :
new players are a lost cause. jagex needs to make the next skill after necromancy to be elite.

Make "sailing" in OSRS an elite skill for their "lost cause" new players then. The next new skill in RS3 will probably come in 2026. Who knows what the gamers want in 3 or 4 years? Maybe RS3 will be doing something more modern than a RS3-style skill in the future.

Giving what the consumers want is what RS3 is good at. Their skills aren't really skills by the definition of other games anyway.

26-Apr-2023 17:16:26

Kat Stryke

Kat Stryke

Posts: 2,010 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
We may need 50 construction for some content in Fort Forinthry but it actually doesn't mean we need 50 construction for Necromancy even when we have some Necromancy content in Fort Forinthry.
Having 50 Construction (or 10 Slayer) should absolutely not be a requirement for the Necromancy skill. Otherwise, free players would be completely excluded from the new skill, effectively making it an elite skill like Invention. The requirements would be less, but still impossible for F2P to ever reach.

From all reports so far, Necromancy will not be an elite skill, and will have no requirements to start it, except for a miniquest - which should be open to all players.

This tells me one of two things must be true:

- The fort itself will have very little to nothing to do with the Necromancy miniquest, other than perhaps it takes place in this general area.

- Somehow the fort will be made relevant on free worlds, at least during the miniquest.

Have you visited the fort on a free world? Don't bother. There is literally nothing to do there. Even the bank chest does not function. This entire area is a complete waste of space. Like the new spots dropped on to Al Kharid, it's just another advert for P2P. The fort may as well be a dark featureless void with a large sign in front that reads BUY MEMBERS YOU FILTHY ANIMALS because that is its only purpose in being there, at least for now. I've been putting out fire with gasoline! ^_^

Kat's Diary

27-Apr-2023 09:14:35

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kat Stryke said :
Dilbert2001 said :
We may need 50 construction for some content in Fort Forinthry but it actually doesn't mean we need 50 construction for Necromancy even when we have some Necromancy content in Fort Forinthry.
Having 50 Construction (or 10 Slayer) should absolutely not be a requirement for the Necromancy skill. Otherwise, free players would be completely excluded from the new skill, effectively making it an elite skill like Invention. The requirements would be less, but still impossible for F2P to ever reach.

From all reports so far, Necromancy will not be an elite skill, and will have no requirements to start it, except for a miniquest - which should be open to all players.

This tells me one of two things must be true:

- The fort itself will have very little to nothing to do with the Necromancy miniquest, other than perhaps it takes place in this general area.

- Somehow the fort will be made relevant on free worlds, at least during the miniquest.

Have you visited the fort on a free world? Don't bother. There is literally nothing to do there. Even the bank chest does not function. This entire area is a complete waste of space. Like the new spots dropped on to Al Kharid, it's just another advert for P2P. The fort may as well be a dark featureless void with a large sign in front that reads BUY MEMBERS YOU FILTHY ANIMALS because that is its only purpose in being there, at least for now.

Necromancy may not have hard skill level requirements, but I expect some mechanics like ranking and qualifications in Archaeology, free players aren't going to proceed to higher rank. This is how freemium games work. Free players should not expect to enjoy most of the premium content.

Fort Forinthry is similar to Anachronia in Archaeology, most of Necromancy content won't be in the Fort but it will have very strong lore values even free players will enjoy.

27-Apr-2023 15:34:10 - Last edited on 28-Apr-2023 03:54:19 by Dilbert2001

Kat Stryke

Kat Stryke

Posts: 2,010 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
Kat Stryke said :
Dilbert2001 said :
We may need 50 construction for some content in Fort Forinthry but it actually doesn't mean we need 50 construction for Necromancy even when we have some Necromancy content in Fort Forinthry.
Having 50 Construction (or 10 Slayer) should absolutely not be a requirement for the Necromancy skill. Otherwise, free players would be completely excluded from the new skill, effectively making it an elite skill like Invention. The requirements would be less, but still impossible for F2P to ever reach.

From all reports so far, Necromancy will not be an elite skill, and will have no requirements to start it, except for a miniquest - which should be open to all players.

This tells me one of two things must be true:

- The fort itself will have very little to nothing to do with the Necromancy miniquest, other than perhaps it takes place in this general area.

- Somehow the fort will be made relevant on free worlds, at least during the miniquest.

Have you visited the fort on a free world? Don't bother. There is literally nothing to do there. Even the bank chest does not function. This entire area is a complete waste of space. Like the new spots dropped on to Al Kharid, it's just another advert for P2P. The fort may as well be a dark featureless void with a large sign in front that reads BUY MEMBERS YOU FILTHY ANIMALS because that is its only purpose in being there, at least for now.

Necromancy may not have hard skill level requirements, but I expect some mechanics like ranking and qualifications in Archaeology, free players aren't going to proceed to higher rank.

Fort Forinthry is similar to Anachronia in Archaeology, most of Necromancy content won't be in the Fort but it will have very strong lore values even free players will enjoy.
Sounds like we agree.

Maybe we will even get ghoulish new titles. I've been putting out fire with gasoline! ^_^

Kat's Diary

28-Apr-2023 04:29:40

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The latest suggests Necromancy will come immediately after Fort Forinthry: Dead and Buried.

In the next chapter of Fort Forinthry paving the way to Necromancy, we probably will find something buried in the Fort. Of course, this won't be anything "elite" and it has no requirement. Then comes necromancy, again shouldn't be any requirement to start everywhere in the world, to a certain point there will be requirements for players to get membership to rank up or play in the Fort.

28-Apr-2023 15:46:38

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