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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Carol Trees said :
Runescape earned my trust but this skilling nerf is scary

What skilling nerf? They are talking about buffing farming and herblore. The only "nerf" is on the boss herb reward. Even the drop table of combat and slayer skills aren't affected at all.

20-Oct-2022 15:47:16

Vengeance of
Mar Member 2018

Vengeance of

Posts: 2,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :
Carol Trees said :
Runescape earned my trust but this skilling nerf is scary

What skilling nerf? They are talking about buffing farming and herblore. The only "nerf" is on the boss herb reward. Even the drop table of combat and slayer skills aren't affected at all.

Yeah, this is very much a skilling buff , not a nerf. Without a steady stream of herbs coming from PvM, skillers will be expected to keep up with demand. That means a higher demand for growing them, and because they're adding ways to increase the yield per farm run, it should mean more profit.

Skilling is meant to be the main way of obtaining resources, and Jagex has realized that they've buffed PvM rewards over the years so much that it wasn't anymore. Hence the changes; one of the mods (Shogun, I think?) mentioned that he hates nerfs and would prefer to buff things that are underpowered instead, but PvM has just gotten so many buffs over the years that it's untenable to buff skilling enough to compensate, so there's no other option than to scale some of those buffs back.

And as far as "Stone Spirits 2.0"; both JMods admitted on stream that mistakes were made (there's both too many Stone Spirits coming into the game and not enough being used up, resulting in massive oversaturation which is why their value tanked so quickly), mistakes that they're actively working to avoid with this drop rework.

20-Oct-2022 17:41:53 - Last edited on 20-Oct-2022 19:35:06 by Vengeance of

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Vengeance of said :
Dilbert2001 said :
Carol Trees said :
Runescape earned my trust but this skilling nerf is scary

What skilling nerf? They are talking about buffing farming and herblore. The only "nerf" is on the boss herb reward. Even the drop table of combat and slayer skills aren't affected at all.

Yeah, this is very much a skilling buff , not a nerf. Without a steady stream of herbs coming from PvM, skillers will be expected to keep up with demand. That means a higher demand for growing them, and because they're adding ways to increase the yield per farm run, it should mean more profit.

Skilling is meant to be the main way of obtaining resources, and Jagex has realized that they've buffed PvM rewards of the years so much that it wasn't anymore. Hence the changes; one of the mods (Shogun, I think?) mentioned that he hates nerfs and would prefer to buff things that are underpowered instead, but PvM has just gotten too many buffs over the years that there's no other option than to scale some of them back.

And as far as "Stone Spirits 2.0"; both JMods admitted on stream that mistakes were made (there's both too many Stone Spirits coming into the game and not enough being used up, resulting in massive oversaturation which is why their value tanked so quickly), mistakes that they're actively working to avoid with this drop rework.

On the stone spirit topic, perhaps they can rework the drop to super stone spirit, and 1 super stone spirits gives 5 or 10 extra ores instead of one. Then stone spirits may become viable drop again.

20-Oct-2022 18:20:43

Vengeance of
Mar Member 2018

Vengeance of

Posts: 2,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said :

On the stone spirit topic, perhaps they can rework the drop to super stone spirit, and 1 super stone spirits gives 5 or 10 extra ores instead of one. Then stone spirits may become viable drop again.

One of the mods mentioned wanting to turn Stone Spirits into a single item that depletes charges based on the tier of the ore being mined, which is sort of like what you're suggesting; higher level bosses would be able to drop more "charges". Whether that's something that's actually in development, only Jagex knows, but I think it's an interesting solution, especially for the low-mid tier spirits that are practically worthless these days.

20-Oct-2022 19:33:20

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Vengeance of said :
...

Runite spirits actually have fairly well recovered, ever since they're no longer dropped by high levelled enemies (and that update did not just remove inadequate spirit drops, it also added them to places where they belong) - with the exception of master treasure trails I do not even see a place anymore, in which I would deem them as inadequate. I mean - funnily enough - they're the most valuable spirit now.

Of course other older spirits are a nightmare - adamant spirits are usually not dropped from level 40-esque enemies (where you would want to get them, if you couldn't just buy them for dirt cheap), but rather stuff like lava noodles or other high levelled enemies. Obviously it's not just done with only having spirits in adequate places - animica also is fairly worthless for that matter if you do not want to mine ore afterwards. There either need to be fewer drops - or more means to consume them.

That said, I still do not really think it's the right way to condense them down into one singular spirit with extrapolated consumption based on the ore, since it most likely will make it unfeasible to use it for lower levelled stuff. Of course, better than status quo, but it feels like a likewise cheap solution, like replacing every ore and bar by the spirits in the first place.

I actually would agree on supercharging spirits to gain much more ore (for much much much more spirits consumed) at once would be the better solution. Otherwise adding one spirit up to 50, one for precious ores and grouping higher ones together based on their tier. Maybe consider using stone spirits also for smelting their respective bars. Why not even a combination or all of them? Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

21-Oct-2022 06:45:35 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2022 07:28:28 by Rikornak

Roddy Piper
Jan Member 2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,751 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
".. I still do not really think it's the right way to condense them down into one singular spirit with extrapolated consumption based on the ore, since it most likely will make it unfeasible to use it for lower levelled stuff."

I don't think it is important to double low level ores. You get them faster anyways, less are needed to level up smithing and the items have less use and value.

21-Oct-2022 13:52:09

Vengeance of
Mar Member 2018

Vengeance of

Posts: 2,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said :
Vengeance of said :
...

Runite spirits actually have fairly well recovered, ever since they're no longer dropped by high levelled enemies (and that update did not just remove inadequate spirit drops, it also added them to places where they belong) - with the exception of master treasure trails I do not even see a place anymore, in which I would deem them as inadequate. I mean - funnily enough - they're the most valuable spirit now.

The thing is though (and something I think they alluded to during the stream) is that Runite (and Luminite, though its Spirit is considerably less valuable than Runite for some reason) is in the unique position of being a component of Elder Rune, the fastest Smithing training method in the game. The demand for Runite is significantly higher than most ores since it's both a mid-tier ore (as well as BIS for F2P players) and a vital component of late-game Smithing; since a lack of demand is one of two reasons Stone Spirits collapsed in the first place (the other being oversaturation which as you say has now been addressed), it's not too surprising that Runite bounced back.

But ores like Mithril, Adamant, and everything between Runite and Animica don't have nearly the same type of demand. The members-only spirits are also mostly dropped by late game Slayer and bosses, but because people don't really need those ores for anything other than Concentrated Alloy (something that's also not in particularly large demand for anyone but the subset of people who make Masterwork for profit) there's still a significant glut of those spirits in the market.

21-Oct-2022 15:42:08 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2022 15:43:22 by Vengeance of

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Roddy Piper said :
".. I still do not really think it's the right way to condense them down into one singular spirit with extrapolated consumption based on the ore, since it most likely will make it unfeasible to use it for lower levelled stuff."

I don't think it is important to double low level ores. You get them faster anyways, less are needed to level up smithing and the items have less use and value.

I would agree with you if we still had the old smithing system, in which those metals hold no relevance at all. Considering that the system was revamped in a fashion, that you need all core metals in order to create masterwork equipment, as well as maintain its trimmed variant, they should still be kept in consideration. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

21-Oct-2022 17:22:10

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Vengeance of said :
...

That may be the reason why runite is as valuable as it is, but considering elder rune also needs both kind of animica it doesn't explain the extremely low value of their respective spirits.

Also in here - copper and tin spirits are among the most valuable spirits out there - so valuable they cause a loss if you would use them for mining - but that's also given the fact they're not readily available at all. I mean they solely drop in places where they're adequate, so you naturally can't get them in big numbers (since copper/tin/bronze drops also were fairly rare before the rework), thus I do think they could highly benefit from a consolidation with all spirits up to at least t40 - since they're - with the exception of mithril - all are basically worthless - to be fair I only can explain adamant by it dropping en masse in places in which it isn't supposed to drop. Maybe even consider to make a f2p core spirit (call it sedimentary) out of them, also including runite. Thing is - would coal belong to steel or mithril. Likewise Animica - adamant or runite? I think that could be solved if there was one f2p core spirit + one for precious ores.

Seeing spirit values I actually believe now, that rather high levelled ores will hurt if all spirits are brainlessly condensed into one - not the low levelled ones (with the exception of iron, coal and adamant, since the final result wouldn't be closely so dirt cheap - albeit admitted: my 'sedementary' suggestion also won't be - albeit that one certainly won't hurt spirits above runite). Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

21-Oct-2022 17:33:48 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2022 17:50:53 by Rikornak

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