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DONT MAKE SUMMONING 120 Thread is locked

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Tom Grey

Tom Grey

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Darkmaster_b said :
Tom Grey said :
Page 53 post 1 for what is unbalanced.

I read it and I don't really think it makes the point you think it does.

Tiered progression by its very design makes lower tiered things obsolete upon reaching the next tier.

Skills that level are tiered in their progression. There is no going around this. Without fundamentally changing the entire design of the Runescape skill system there is no way to make a level 40 summoning familiar useful compared to its level 99 replacement in a way that doesn't shatter the foundation skills are built upon.

Forcing an equal usefulness throughout all tiers of the skill is the exact opposite of balance. It sucks away the value of higher level content to spread it around into the lower stuff. The sub 99 familiars are very useful to those with levels that are appropriate for their use. I don't really understand how you couldn't get that.

I'm smithing 99+, does that mean bronze equipment should be balanced to still be useful to me? That is the logic behind the lists you presented. We're not talking about raw materials with gathering skills here either. They do not apply in this particular scenario. The problem, which was discussed on page 53 is that at any level, 1 or 99, there are 60% of familiars that are obsolete. At the same time there are familiars for skilling that just don’t give similar skilling boosts across the board. So someone with 99 summoning will be better at mining than someone with lv 1 but at the same time will not be better than someone in smithing, invention, fletching, etc. this is why it’s unbalanced.

Same thing for combat. Until a certain summoning level your combat familiars are just a waste to use. But as soon as you reach 99 there is no point in using even those that were useful before, due to nihils, steel titan, etc.

07-Mar-2019 21:31:30

Tom Grey

Tom Grey

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120 will just make the matters worse. Players with 120 will be the same as players with 99 right now. Familiars that we currently use will be obsolete. And we will get to the point where players would ask themselves, was 120 even worth it with no actual benefit?

07-Mar-2019 21:44:58

iAmKoto
Jul Member 2016

iAmKoto

Posts: 1,022 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tom Grey said :
120 will just make the matters worse. Players with 120 will be the same as players with 99 right now. Familiars that we currently use will be obsolete. And we will get to the point where players would ask themselves, was 120 even worth it with no actual benefit?


just make new post 99 pouches use old pouches in order to make them.


make them unneficient way to train, but good for gp, because making bulk of pouches would be hard to get.

this way u'll use more mats + old pouches and new usefull pets.

now if new pets are way too unbalanced, i can agree im against. But lest supose that the ultime DPS familiar is 15-20% better than steel titan, im fine with it.

we can also make superior nihil pouches wich would use old ones to make, gg ur problem is solved.

If its done correctly, 120 summ can be a great addition to the game

07-Mar-2019 22:41:08

Tom Grey

Tom Grey

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You don’t understand that using one familiar to create another still makes the first one obsolete, because it’s not used. So we will have the same problem. Also, for 120 summoning I expect familiars to be 10x more powerful than we have right now, because of the amount of exp required, which would be horrible.

Having inefficient ways to train also creates more problems than it solves. The only way you can make familiars to be good money per hour is to cap their price to high alch value, which boosts inflation.

I also don’t want 100+ to be about familiars. Any summoning expansion which features new summons I will be against, because of the problems I stated before. The only version of 120 I would support is by having a completely different way to train and completely different benefits. 99-120 should feel like a completely different skill, but with some thematic similarity to the original skill. However, at the same time, it would be more reasonable to create a new skill in its entirety and balance summoning 1-99 instead. Which will be beneficial to all, because 1 new content and 2 we don’t upgrade boring skills to 120 just because.

07-Mar-2019 23:43:11 - Last edited on 07-Mar-2019 23:44:26 by Tom Grey

iAmKoto
Jul Member 2016

iAmKoto

Posts: 1,022 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
But they wouldnt be obsolete as whole because u would still need to create them to "upgrade" them. 99 titan does make any other dps familiar obsolete ....

Being obsolete is about not using it at all, i mean no reason to even make this item.... but if u use them they wont be 100% obsolete


and again, if its really 10x stronger summons, i'm against aswell. My ideia is to make 10%-15 % stronger, if its more than that, it'll be stupid imo.

08-Mar-2019 01:43:32

Tom Grey

Tom Grey

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Then you have a different definition of obsolete. Because familiars primary use is to be summoned before all else. If familiars are not summoned, they are obsolete.

Making familiars 10-20% or 1000% stronger is all the same. It’s familiars that make others obsolete. Which is unnecessary, considering familiars right now already provide boosts, and all increased cap will do is make 120 a new 99, amid requiring 10x time and money to get.

08-Mar-2019 10:54:29

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08-Mar-2019 17:26:06

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Darkmaster_b said :
Tom Grey said :
Page 53 post 1 for what is unbalanced.

I read it and I don't really think it makes the point you think it does.

Tiered progression by its very design makes lower tiered things obsolete upon reaching the next tier.

Skills that level are tiered in their progression. There is no going around this. Without fundamentally changing the entire design of the Runescape skill system there is no way to make a level 40 summoning familiar useful compared to its level 99 replacement in a way that doesn't shatter the foundation skills are built upon.

Forcing an equal usefulness throughout all tiers of the skill is the exact opposite of balance. It sucks away the value of higher level content to spread it around into the lower stuff. The sub 99 familiars are very useful to those with levels that are appropriate for their use. I don't really understand how you couldn't get that.

I'm smithing 99+, does that mean bronze equipment should be balanced to still be useful to me? That is the logic behind the lists you presented. We're not talking about raw materials with gathering skills here either. They do not apply in this particular scenario.

Agreed.

Well said.
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

09-Mar-2019 12:34:26

Cute Brat
Jul Member 2023

Cute Brat

Posts: 126 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Its not only low level things that arent being used I personally havent used anything besides a pack yak in years. 120 will probably add at max 5 or 6 new things its not worth the price or the time it takes to collect charms for a few more familiars. Princess of World 98 =p~

09-Mar-2019 13:32:41

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