forums.rs

Forums

The Wilderness Reborn Failed.

Quick find code: 15-16-536-66276473

of 2
H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Just as it says on the tin.

Today's ninja strike provides the most 'tame' Wilderness that has ever existed. Last year, PvPers paid a small price so that the area could appeal to more players beyond their demographic only for that loss to result in fixes that essentially remove the need for a Wilderness region in the first place. It's a Wilderness in name only. A glorified slayer area that has a few mechanics tucked in it to encourage players to opt-in to PvP and experience the once fearsome and revered area's former thrills.

Let's take stock of where today's changes harmed last year's efforts, and the area's genuinely thrilling atmosphere.

The Wilderness no longer harbors pursuers, randomized or controlled by others, of any kind.

> Part of what made the Wilderness great was the sense of "Hunter vs. Prey", the cat-and-mouse dynamic that made scoring a pile of loot off of someone you happened to come across or who may have happened to steal your Rune rock mining spot at a bad time, -or- when you pull of a daring escape and outplay an assailant with an inventory filled with well-earned resources, great. Even in the eras when Revenants, and later Wilderness mobs, were supposed to somehow simulate players in the area, there was a sense of being watched and a heightened awareness to your every movement that made doing things in this area feel more fun. Now, there's nothing - no Pker, no Revenant, no random Abyssal Lord - that will give players that feeling anymore. The Wilderness is just as safe as the rest of Gielinor.

PvP Content is languishing across Gielinor and is in desperate need of new breath.

PvP in RS3 has been hard carried by the community, and Jagex's lack of engagement (along with updates that alienated quite a few people along the way outside of this arena) have resulted in a Wilderness where people skull up doing other things. It is not the job of the playerbase to make PvP entertaining.

(cont.)
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

14-Mar-2023 02:07:36 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2023 02:10:55 by H 1 L D A

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The sharp decrease in Wilderness chest loot from Wilderness Slayer diminishes the reason to slay in the Wilderness for the vast majority of Mandrith's tasks.

Wilderness Slayer was balanced around risk. If players took equipment into the Wilderness in order to complete tasks, they risked that equipment should a Pker or predator-adjacent Wilderness monster(s) ambush them. With the removal of the threat system for good, Wilderness Slayer is just Slayer in like....7 out of 10 instances. The threat system interacting with the task provided a unique gameplay loop that was sacrificed along with the threats themselves.

Unique skilling methods were either cut down to size or removed entirely.

Now when I talk about cursed energy here, I recognize that the least savory of PvPers utilized it for nefarious purposes, and because of that I am glad for its removal. At the same time, Thieving in the Wilderness saw a negative effect that made very little sense in the form of a doubled cool down for the Rogues' Castle safes. Charming Moths were nerfed too. When coupled with the Slayer nerf, we went from providing engaging content in the PvM and Skilling fronts to just washing all of the content out entirely.

All of this begs the question. Where is Jagex going from here?
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

14-Mar-2023 02:22:49

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If we ever were to do something with PvP ever again we need a PvP system that doesn't suck. That includes PvP that doesn't cost you your equipment (yeah basically most minigames fulfill this aspect, so...), that includes a PvP system that is fun - I don't know why players have considered a PvP system that is extremely reliant on RNG as something that can be even remotely considered as good, a PvP system in which your offensive capabilities always were so insanely disproportional to your defensive ones, in which by pure luck you could blast your enemy into oblivion with a few hits. Take world of warcraft - it certainly isn't something that should be considered a PvP game, but its PvP systems were decently enough - no matter how crappy the balancing is at times (and it really is awful depending on what you play at times).

You basically said it - players were given one singular opportunity with forced PvP - and they exploited the hell out of it to damage less experienced (or just outright gullible) players. And that basically is the mentality of most who engage in this - try to find exploits in order to damage other players. The wilderness itself was one big cesspool that was dried up, the energies were a smaller one. Probably there are more still out there. And those shouldn't be given tools for their shenanigans. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

14-Mar-2023 07:39:33 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2023 08:02:03 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Honestly - I don't think the threat system was too bad. Sure a few adjustments were needed here and there, but otherwise it was the best system they ever had. Certainly still better than the rev wilderness we had had for a few years - and a lot better than the crap they came up with in 2001. It had a lot of potential, but it really seems they don't want to put in more effort - which is sad, since I really had had fun with it - all problems still present aside.

But as for PvP - just focus on the various minigames existing. But it needs so much core work, Jagex never was willing to do in over 22 years to make something just decent out of it - why should they now? Right after they gave up on something with way more potential. Just because it wasn't right on a first attempt. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

14-Mar-2023 08:02:45

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am netural on the Wildy updates yesterady. However, it is clearly stated the reason for the removal of threats is most players want it that way. How is it failed when the majority of players asked for it?

As for pvp, what did the removal of threat changed Wildy PvP? Virtually nothing.

Evidently we can all see lots of players getting killed in Wildyness before and after yesterday's Wildyness updates. We can easily check see and believe it from the Death List next to the Flash Event teleport NPCs.

14-Mar-2023 16:31:07

Garnet Red

Garnet Red

Posts: 437 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Personally, I loved the thrill of WILDY.. I never went up with anything I wasn't prepared to fight for or lose. It's just a dead space now with random monsters or the volcano throwing stuff at me.

I never had to make the decision to be "vulnerable"... WILDY was just that. IMHO it loses some of the... something that made Wildy great fun if you have to "make the decision to be vulnerable"

I remember the first time my friend took me up.. we were with another player who came basically to help protect me if needed.. I was such a nooblet that I kept clicking on the game field instead of the map causing the friend to think he was being attacked by me.. he even came at me a couple of times before my friend could intervene and explain..

I had 2 friends who were great pk'rs and I would hang out with them up by that bank.. I don't remember them ever going after anyone who wasn't "in the game" We picked up each other's things if someone died.. it was a lot of fun. I look back on those days as RS's best days simply because that is when it was the most fun for me.
Garnet Red

14-Mar-2023 17:16:12

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Garnet Red said :
Personally, I loved the thrill of WILDY.. I never went up with anything I wasn't prepared to fight for or lose.
It's just a dead space now with random monsters or the volcano throwing stuff at me.


I never had to make the decision to be "vulnerable"... WILDY was just that. IMHO it loses some of the... something that made Wildy great fun if you have to "make the decision to be vulnerable"

I remember the first time my friend took me up.. we were with another player who came basically to help protect me if needed.. I was such a nooblet that I kept clicking on the game field instead of the map causing the friend to think he was being attacked by me.. he even came at me a couple of times before my friend could intervene and explain..

I had 2 friends who were great pk'rs and I would hang out with them up by that bank.. I don't remember them ever going after anyone who wasn't "in the game" We picked up each other's things if someone died.. it was a lot of fun. I look back on those days as RS's best days simply because that is when it was the most fun for me.

With the update yesterday, we no longer have random monsters or volcano throwing stuff at us.

If you want to pvp, just opt-in, and FYI, Wildy PvP is moved to W2 unofficially. As you can see from the Dead List just south of Wilderness, it is extremely easy to see not just plenty of pvp actions, but plenty of pvp actions resulted in causalities.

14-Mar-2023 18:02:30 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2023 19:53:06 by Dilbert2001

Bertel62
Aug Member 2023

Bertel62

Posts: 1,052 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
H 1 L D A said :
All of this begs the question. Where is Jagex going from here?
Probably removing the wilderness entirely. How is it even different from any other area in the game now? Why do we have it? If it just to have a place where people can fight each other, then make an arena of some sort. It doesn't need to be an area with normal skilling mixed in, when the skilling is perfectly safe. The whole thing feels like an attempt to save something that has outlived itself, and shouldn't be in the game anymore.

My take on the wilderness is this: Either make it dangerous for whomever sets foot in the area, no matter why they are there, and make everything more rewarding. Alternatively remove it from the game. I don't understand the purpose of this safe/unsafe mix they have created.

14-Mar-2023 19:10:07 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2023 19:27:19 by Bertel62

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Bertel62 said :
H 1 L D A said :
All of this begs the question. Where is Jagex going from here?
Probably removing the wilderness entirely. How is it even different from any other area in the game now? Why do we have it? If it just to have a place where people can fight each other, then make an arena of some sort. It doesn't need to be an area with normal skilling mixed in, when the skilling is perfectly safe. The whole thing feels like an attempt to save something that has outlived itself, and shouldn't be in the game anymore.

My take on the wilderness is this: Either make it dangerous for whomever sets foot in the area, no matter why they are there, and make everything more rewarding. Alternatively remove it from the game. I don't understand the purpose of this safe/unsafe mix they have created.

No. I see them putting more distinctions between opt-in and opt-out PvP. For instance, we began to need to explicitly opt-in to access Warbands since yesterday's update. In other words, I think they are differentiating pvping from pking.

14-Mar-2023 19:57:05

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
PvP shouldn’t suck (involve loss of equipment) if we spend dev time on it.

At this point, I’d be a proponent of making PvP not involve the loss of items in the Wilderness if it can be used to enhance Wilderness Slayer into regular viability. However, I believe this should come with the ability to fight for the equipment of your opponent elsewhere (“classic Wilderness worlds where players drop items for their killers.)

How is the removal of the threat system a failure?

It’s not. Most players are probably okay with the ninja strike (unfortunately)… The strike was aimed at “fixing” a poorly implemented threat mechanic that was replacing the threat of other players. The update last year was where Jagex failed. Not yesterday.

Either go all in on the risk vs reward for everyone, or remove the ditch entirely.

Agreed - if I were to get a vote, the Wilderness should be dangerous, and right now the ditch serves no real purpose whatsoever.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
- July 31st, 2022

15-Mar-2023 03:43:56

Quick find code: 15-16-536-66276473 Back to Top