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Aftermath: Ancient Awakening

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H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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Since this quest came out this week (even though I was away from the game on a small vacation for a few days) I'll be providing courtesy spoilers on the early posts - as there will be discourse about Ancient Awakening plot points here.



Alright, so, I wasn't taken by surprise by anything we saw in this chapter of Fort Forinthry's storyline at all - as I had suggested it was going to be the quest that runs parallel to Old School RuneScape's 'Dragon Slayer II' quest in so much as it would be the quest that would establish Vorkath as a forefront entity in RuneScape's lore. It also retained the same creator, Zorgoth the Dragonkin, and the same purpose for creation, which was to eradicate humanity. Vorkath's meaning - "failure" - has now been established in RS3 as well.

There was a noticeable focus on the fort staff almost as a whole on this quest.

Aster was given a chance to show they were struggling with grieving the death of their close sister, Bianca - and there was a touching letter in which Ellamaria (E.R. - Ellamaria Remanis) reveals the location of Bianca's burial site in secret so that Aster is given the opportunity to grieve properly. Aster is the one who supplies the headstone. Both people had genuine relationships with Bianca.

Bill was given a semblance of backstory himself, being the cowardly son of a brave warrior father who didn't appreciate Bill's craftsmanship as much as he should have.

Ellamaria... kind of felt like an afterthought in surprising comparison. It did seem like she may have been death flagged (or as someone I know around here may claim, her husband may have been death flagged) in her private meeting in the Jolly Boar.

Before moving on to prognostication of the future, even with noticeable dialogue and interaction from grander past quest achievements, this quest has a strong lean on the idea that our Fort is significant. That's cool.

It looks like said Fort will be where we encounter Zemo/Vorky.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
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14-Oct-2023 21:10:39

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Ancient Awakening is hardly anything running in parallel Dragon Slayer 2. Vorkath is the only thing existing in both RS3 and OSRS. It is similar to Zuk. The adventure of Vorkath will definitely be different in RS3 too. Of course, Zorgoth created Vorkath in the 4th Age. It would only be strange if it wasn't the same lore in RS3. I serious doubt we go back to Ungael to fight Vorkath in RS3. We will go back to Ungael, but for the Combat Arena and perhaps other future content, which is definitely not existing in OSRS.

As for the grave of Bianca, it is clearly written on the Mysterious Letter Astor dropped that they are from the
Varrockian authorities
. it is not just one person, and definitely not Zemouregal himself. It is not hard to understand there are so many suffering souls in Misthalin who want Roald, who only lives to play Jenga and steal from Lumford and other Misthalin people and create an illusion the kingdom is still good, and bankrupted Lumbridge, gone. There has been a political movement going on.

"I am reaching out to you on behalf of the Varrockian authorities"


Of course, Fort Forinthry is signiicant. It is well narrated even before the construction of it in the New Fort quest, it was the most contested place in the Wilderness because the power lied beneath it. We also learned from the new quest, dragonkin transferred dead dragons from Ungael there. There must be a reason. This makes us Duke/Duchess/Dux of Fort Forinthry the most important, and we are the only one who can save Gielinor after we learned this ritual:

Vos
Da!
Xau
Ma!
Tak
Ma!

Loose ends of
Vos
from the Senntisten mytsteries, and
Xau-Tak
from a hell of lore in the last 15 years are beginning to get connected. This quest is not long, but has a lot of substance, connecting the past to present, and then the future.

14-Oct-2023 22:34:19 - Last edited on 14-Oct-2023 22:44:43 by Dilbert2001

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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That's literally what I said above - the points around Vorkath, meaning the dragon itself, the island on which it is found, and its creation and historical purpose - are the parts where the lore from OSRS is applicable.

Yes, it's more likely we are fighting Vorkath elsewhere. I completed the quest and read the dialogue and saw the splash screens.

Comparing this situation to Zuk is silly because Vorkath is an example where Old School RuneScape goes out of their way to establish actual lore for one of the two characters, whereas they don't really put much of anything behind Zuk. Zuk just kind of exists and is imprisoned and somehow has control of the feral TzHaar that inhabit the Inferno. For all we know, Old School's account on Zuk could be the same as RS3's - with the entity responsible for imprisoning Zuk having not yet been revealed to be Bandos (and of course, subsequent events like introduction to the Fight Kiln and the Sixth Age still have yet to occur.)

Ancient Awakening doesn't change Vorkath's lore at all here (outside of the dragon having not yet been reanimated) - and we know this because Holo-Zorgoth tells us all of the past details that are found in Dragon Slayer II regarding that creature.

Now, Aster seems to suggest that Zorgoth is long gone in Ancient Awakening. In Dragon Slayer, Zorgoth very much was still alive. That -most definitely- is a departure from DS2, but it makes sense because we're taking a necromantic route and merging the story into a new Misthalin-centered direction.
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Maxed
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15-Oct-2023 00:52:00 - Last edited on 15-Oct-2023 00:57:05 by H 1 L D A

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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OSRS's lore is OSRS's lore. RS3's lore is its own. Both games share some NPCs but their adventures can be totally different. Bob the cat is dead is OSRS and it doesn't mean Bob in RS3 has to die.

Lore can be novelty or just plain information without any significance in the storylines. So OSRS wants to have Vorakath stuck underneath the featureless Ungael and they don't have anything to show for Zuk, not even his legs, so be it, but RS3 definitely have their own way of telling rich stories around the same characters. The two games are very different and definitely not "in parallel".

I don't know where and how did Astor know of the "dead" of Zorgoth. AFAIK, we learned about Zorgoth in RS3 from the Archivist from the quest, not Astor, and it only told us about Zorgoth, but nothing about where it is now. What does whether Zorgoth is dead or alive mean to RS3 and OSRS anyway? Nothing! As there is nothing novelty about this NPC. It is just a name, a dragonkin name, of no other significance to either game.

15-Oct-2023 01:17:42 - Last edited on 15-Oct-2023 01:20:56 by Dilbert2001

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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Again, I agree with the above sentiment

...but to compare historical data (such as Vorkath's origin story) to an event that happens DURING the player's adventures like OSRS' Bob the Cat losing his ninth life is apples to oranges. Throughout many of both games' lores, characters tend to have the same inspired past, and storylines often (but not always) have the same direction and beats. Yes - that doesn't mean the games must have the same outcomes - but its a very neat thing to see players who care about these NPCs not have to suspend logic to be able to talk about the NPC differently depending on which game is being discussed. You should be able to use knowledge about the existing character in one universe to understand the same character in another. That's how to do cameos the right way.

I'm not suggesting Aster knows for certain that Zorgoth is dead, but their reaction to the Archivist's introduction (as a database that was fashioned in Zorgoth's image) suggests that they believe Zorgoth is dead. If that is so - that's worth pointing out because Zorgoth played a similar role to Zemouregal in OSRS' encounter with Vorkath as a very much still-alive Dragonkin.

Completely disagree with you on Zorgoth being meaningless in either game. Zorgoth must exist for Vorkath to exist, and RS3 respected that enough to at least give him representation. OSRS flat out made Zorgoth the big bad of the questline. That's a whole lot more than nothing.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
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15-Oct-2023 01:33:47 - Last edited on 15-Oct-2023 01:34:29 by H 1 L D A

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Again, when OSRS added their lore to Bob and killed it, it is their lore and nobody cares about it in RS3. Likewise, Guthix was killed in RS3 but who in OSRS even knew of Guthix being alive in OSRS and there isn't even a living and breathing god in that game?

Zorgoth is just a meaningless name, just like we know the Varrock stray dog must have parents, but who care what are the names of their parents?

Can you please get straight to the point and tell us what Zorgoth did or didn't have anything to show in OSRS have to do with the RS3 Recent Gam Update Ancient Awakening? I see absolutely nothing. Zemouregal is a Mahjarrat with lots of adventures in RS3, and Zorgoth is just a named dragonkin who created a dragon in both games. It is not even apples and oranges. It is like watermelons to grapes.

15-Oct-2023 01:40:36 - Last edited on 15-Oct-2023 01:50:34 by Dilbert2001

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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Already said it.

Zorgoth created the dragon that was just reanimated by Zemouregal and is currently en route to destroy your fort.
He created it to destroy all of humanity (which is what the Dragonkin Conflicts were about in both games - the clashes between the Kin and humans such as Robert the Strong, which is why Bob is even involved in DS2 in the first place.)

You would be disagreeing with the RS3 team if you thought Zorgoth didn't hold any importance here - because you heard of his importance right from his own holographic version of himself! If Vorkath didn't need an origin story,
why bother to tell it?


There's definitely still avenues for Guthix to be expounded upon in OSRS. Juna, a Guardian of Guthix, is very much a thing in OSRS, for example.

I don't wanna dwell on Bob because he doesn't make an appearance in this quest, but in both games players have sentimental value completing A Tale of Two Cats. Bob is a classic RuneScape NPC. People absolutely had an emotional reaction to his death in DS2. You -still- can't speak for everyone when you try to say something doesn't hold value.

In RS3, Bob could be reanimated by the player because Necromancy should such an event happen, but more importantly, is that RS3 still has Bob as an available, living NPC to use should they wish. They haven't recently, which is why RS3 players haven't had to share their opinion about him yet.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
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15-Oct-2023 02:05:35

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Zemouregal is what we are and have been interested in RS3 for years, definitely not Zorgoth.

Zorgoth is just a named dragonkin who created Vorkath, but nothing else we care about because there is simply nothing interesting just like the names of the parents of the Varrock stray dog is not what we care in RS3.

Likewise, there is no living and breathing gods in OSRS, so there is no lore of The World Wakes and the World Guardian in OSRS. If OSRS players care about the RS3 Guthix and World Guardian, they are still the RS3 content. OSRS doesn't have such lore.

If you want to talk about OSRS lore and NPC, why don't you do so in the OSRS forum? Zorgoth is just a named dragonkin who created Vorkath. Nothing much other than that from the Archivist, which doesn't even exist in OSRS anyway.

The significance of the Ungael dragonkin to RS3, Zorgoth or not, is their direct connection to Fort Forinthry. Obviously, no such thing even remotely exists in OSRS.

15-Oct-2023 02:16:49

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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Look.

This is a quest that simply moves up the rising action of the storyline. We got the Vorkath tease in Dead and Buried, and we got the confirmation and background details from Ancient Awakening.

I'd invite an F Mod to drop by and tell you off about whether or not this is a relevant place for discourse - but I'll do it myself. If you don't like that Zorgoth got mentioned in Ancient Awakening, go take it up with Jagex. I didn't make him important, they did. Jagex is also the ones making the decisions to make crossover content between the two games and its them that have made characters similar with multiple overlapping characteristics as opposed to completely different characters.

So, if you don't wanna talk about Old School lore when it's applicable to Rs3, don't engage with my thread. I'm here to have fun, not start fights with morons.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
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15-Oct-2023 02:25:25

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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We know about Ungael which is totally different than the OSRS Ungael.

We know about Zorgoth, which is just a named Dragonkin who created Vorkath, and nothing else in both RS3 and OSRS.

We know about Vorkath, who again will be very different than OSRS. We are not likely going to fight them in Ungael.

What "crossover" are you talking about when the adventures of these NPC and usages of maps are totally different in both games?

I didn't say anything about "Old School Lore" applicable to RS3 or not. It is just no such significant "Old School lore" is applicable to RS3. RS3 is not going to unlink Ungael from Fort Forinthry just because there is no such "Old School lore". Similarly, they aren't going to make Vorkath return to the basement of Ungael alone while dropping Zemouregal.

From Page 1, Post 6, I actually asked you to show us how do you think Zorgoth mean to RS3 other than the obvious fact it is a dragonkin who created Vorkath from Ancient Awakening. The question still stands.

15-Oct-2023 02:34:02 - Last edited on 15-Oct-2023 02:40:59 by Dilbert2001

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