RuneScape Forum Archive | Aftermath: Ancient Awakening

Mixed Slush

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Well excuse me I wasn't reading the spoilers for obvious reasons but I might aswell have!

16-Oct-2023 19:52:52

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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H 1 L D A said :
You're the one bringing up Bob the Cat, Dilbert.

When I said the two stories are in parallel, I was specifically talking about Vorkath and I have made that consistently clear from the opening post. But I'll do it again, because we have posters that will just blatantly ignore the details just to derail the thread with silly arguments and others who will literally zero in on like three words.

In Dragon Slayer II, Vorkath was created by Zorgoth, a Dragonkin, to assist the Dragonkin in the Dragonkin Conflicts (a war that took place between the Kin and humans like Robert the Strong - or as we know him, Bob the Cat.) Vorkath was created on an island in the Fremmenik Sea known as Ungael.

In Ancient Awakening, we discover that Vorkath was created by a Dragonkin named Zorgoth to destroy humans (while a broader purpose, A Tail of Two Cats is in both games, so game knowledge can infer that this was an ancient weapon used in the Dragonkin conflicts) on an island our Fort supervisor, who happens to be a Fremmenik, identifies as Ungael, which the Dragonkin Tomb later confirms.

---

That is a very clear parallel between Vorkath's lore in Old School RuneScape, and his lore in RuneScape 3.

This is not the same situation as with Zuk, because RuneScape 3's team was given a mostly blank canvas with which to create lore for the character in that instance (and even then, they still made sure to include Zuk's imprisonment underground, which is critical to what has made Zuk what he is in both games.)

Vorkath already had an established history, and RS3 didn't alter that history in any way.

Of course I brought up the different stories of Bob in RS3 and OSRS after DT2, 100% to disprove your claim the lore of OSRS after DT2 and RS3 are "in parallel".

16-Oct-2023 19:56:15

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

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And yet, that disproves nothing of actual significance to the characters that are actually being discussed.

This quest's purpose was to establish Vorkath as a threat and they could have gone about that in any number of ways, but they chose to adapt the entirety of the dragon's history from Old School RuneScape. You learn the same details about him that you do in Ancient Awakening in Dragon Slayer II.

That specific part of Dragon Slayer II - which is what I have been pointing to this whole time - is a parallel. You seem to think that I am arguing that DS2 and Ancient Awakening are the same exact quest for some reason...

If you WANT to talk about possibilities though, this quest series isn't finished yet. What if seeking more ancient knowledge about Zorgoth or Vorkath does happen the next time? Bob the Cat still makes for a particularly valid source of information, precisely because he's still alive in RS3.

And what if he decides he wants to join us for this final battle to protect the fort? He's got a very real chance of dying here too. Yet another chance for a parallel with Old School.

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16-Oct-2023 20:05:36

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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And yet, I have already listed a lot of PURPOSES of this quest on Page 1, Post 2.

We know the Dragonkin who created the Ungael Lab knew of the Fort and has a reason to send dead dragons to the Fort via a portal.

We know we have a Combat Arena in Ungael which we can still go back to after the quest.

We also learned a lot more stories from The Raptor, Astor/Bianca, and we also added Granny Rowan who happened to know our adventures from far away.

None of these things can be remotely found in OSRS. We know the only common lore between OSRS and RS3 is a dragonkin named Zorgoth created a dragon called Vorkath. Nothing else.

16-Oct-2023 20:13:44

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

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They were not sending those dead dragons to the crypt underneath Fort Forinthry because the Fort was there - the Dragonkin had already built the crypt well in advance of the Fort's existence - and they are sending dead things....to a crypt, which is where dead things go.

The Fort's existence is coincidental later on, and it is that way to illustrate convenience for the player, who otherwise would need to race Zemouregal from another point on the map to reach the Fort first.

The Dragonkin had no idea some idiot would built a fort there thousands of years later.

--

Again, the combat arena on Ungael and the Fort staff's stories aren't a matter of contention because I never once said Ancient Awakening and Dragon Slayer II are the same quest, but that the part involving Vorkath is a 1 to 1 parallel that really only differs once the past meets the present, where Zorgoth may actually be dead and Vorkath had yet to be reanimated.

Those listed purposes don't result in refutation that Vorkath has the same history it does in Old School at all, nor are they even relevant. The combat arena, while replayable, is simply the part of the quest where Zemouregal tries to slow our advance enough to buy himself time to resurrect Vorkath. The Fort staff's stories are a continuation of RS3's direction for this quest line.

....which never needed to incorporate Vorkath in the first place, but we've had that discussion before.

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16-Oct-2023 20:28:25 - Last edited on 16-Oct-2023 20:30:29 by H 1 L D A

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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When I mentioned the Fort, I mentioned the powers and importance of it. The Ungael Dragonkin obviously knew about it. And this is the obvious purpose of the Dragonkin Graveyard in the place we built them Fort. This purpose was obviously not in OSRS, DS2 or whatever content.

The Ungael Arena obviously serves another purpose in RS3, but not in OSRS. In fact, Ungael in RS3 is totally different from the featureless Ungael in OSRS. All the Zemouregal, Combat Arena, Archivist, portal to where the Fort is now are definitely only in RS3.

Again, RS3 and OSRS only share the very little lore that Vorkath was created by Zorgoth. And the adventure of Vorkath in RS3 is already very different from OSRS. Vorkath had to be controlled by Zemouregal after a ritual, and he wasn't sleeping under Ungael and stay put there with no other purpose in OSRS. RS3' Vorkath also doesn't look like OSRS's to say the least.

16-Oct-2023 21:15:08

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

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The importance of a building that doesn't exist for several thousand years? Please. They simply moved dead dragons to a dead dragon graveyard. It's really that simple.

Never once argued the arena, the Archivist, or the portal to the Dragonkin Crypt were in OS. Them being in RS3 doesn't make a difference to Vorkath's lore - they are there for the player in RS3, which is encountering Vorkath under a different context, to interact with in the present.

Having a different context doesn't all of a sudden mean that Vorkath's lore (which you seem to keep downplaying for some reason) isn't a perfect one for one holdover from its original game.

I've

already mentioned

Vorkath being dead (as opposed to merely sleeping) and Zorgoth being seemingly dead as differences -

and these changes are seemingly made so that Jagex could fashion Vorkath's lore into the Fort's storyline.

Bumping off Zorgoth makes it easier to make room for the entrance of Fort Forinthry's big bad villain - Zemouregal. Necromancy has just been revealed to be a pretty accessible power, so having Vorkath be resurrected in front of us is a pretty sensible adaptation.

Of course Vorkath doesn't look he does in Old School. They're still Vorkath. Appearance is absolutely irrelevant. The lore RS3 used intentionally to explain what this dragon is, is enough to determine that we're dealing with the same dragon from Old School.

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Maxed

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16-Oct-2023 21:29:27

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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The importance is not of a "building", but the lore and the content there. OSRS simply doesn't have any of this.

Ungael in RS3 is totally different from OSRS. It tells us not just the two games are different, the lore has to be very different too. When there is a dragonkin Archivist in RS3 and Vorkath was found sleeping and awakened with a ritual by Zemouregal, we know there is something missing in OSRS. Don't forget the Archivist and all the surface structure were created in the 4th Age. We should share the same Archivist, Arena and buildings in RS3 and OSRS if the stories are the strange, so evidently they aren't and we have such stories only in RS3.

"and these changes are seemingly made so that Jagex could fashion Vorkath's lore into the Fort's storyline"

TYVM if you think so. It means RS3 wants Vorkath to be for RS3 and who cares about OSRS. It is similar to Zuk. Who cares about the OSRS Zuk in RS3? Nobody as the only thing common to both games are their names, Vorkath and ZUk, but everything is deliberately different. RS3 wants their NPCs and stories novelty but it is not the same objective in OSRS and even the likes of Mod Ayiza admitted they don't care about lore or logics in OSRS. While Zuk in both RS3 and OSRS still looks similar, Vorkath in RS3 looks like a big blue dragon but it is not in OSRS. Evidenently, RS3 wants their Vorkath to be even more different than the OSRS Vorkath which serves no purpose and no stories sleeping underneath Ungael.

16-Oct-2023 21:46:28

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

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I'm not really here to debate with you about lore being important in OSRS or not, so you can feel free to continue to be absolutely wrong about that as long as you like.

Vorkath is the main figure of this quest.

The Fort has gotten most of the love in this storyline as it should, but for this one particular quest, the focus was on Vorkath. Where it was located. What it looked like. Why the Fremmeniks feared it. It being so big the Dragonkin couldn't move it to a crypt elsewhere when it died so its remains had to be kept on Ungael.

I'm going to repeat myself. Jagex absolutely could have used some other big monster. They could have used this quest to tease some higher power behind Zemouregal like Xau-Tak. They did not have to go into Old School's bestiary, and even if they did they did not have to spend so much detail on carrying over the known information on the monster from one game to the other - But. They did.

And regardless of how you feel about it - most players are excited that Jagex wouldn't shy away from carrying over good content from one game to the other.

Both Vorkaths are big blue dragons.

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Maxed

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18-Oct-2023 00:59:47

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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The "main figure" in RS3 is always the World Guardian. We, the player, are almost the main figure in every quest.

Vorkath is just one of the NPCs. "Main figure"? Being controlled by a Mahjarrat who was destroyed by Moia? The main plot of the not just this quest, but the entire Fort storyline is of course, Fort Forinthry.

There isn't just one main figure, but this storyline is about the First Age conflict we have yet to know, but the tip of the iceberg has begun to show. The cutscene before the New Foundation quest told why we needed to build the Fort in its location. Two confronting entities fought for the powers lying beneath there, and Daemonheim was told at that time and subsequently we learned from the Necromancy quest Vos and Xau-Tak or Vos-Xau-Tak was behind it. Now, perhaps the new quest showed us Dragonkin was involved on the other side.

18-Oct-2023 01:58:48

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Aftermath: Ancient Awakening