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120 summoning

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Colossus823
Apr Member 2022

Colossus823

Posts: 182 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
20 November 2012 saw the release of Evolution of Combat. I am genuinely surprised that 10 years later, Summoning is still based on legacy combat, with familiars hitting once every 3 seconds. It should have had an update long ago.

I am glad with Ancient Summoning, but it didn't address a fundamental problem: for a combat skill, you don't see many combat familiars around. Yes, the occasional one, but combat familiars are pretty much dead besides those highly specific instances. BoB's and healers are the only reason players level up Summoning.

Combat familiars are too slow, too dumb AI-wise and too weak to be viable in day-to-day combat. I try bringing a Fire/Moss/Ice Titan while slaying, but so far, they don't make that much of a difference DPS-wise and are only useful for their special move if I need the defence. For 79 Summoning as a requirement, I expect it to have 79 stats (not 72) and being generally useful for someone with combat lvl 110.

It's a pity. Nothing to see here.

04-Dec-2022 19:55:34

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The issue is, that they've initially released so many familiars with rather random functionality - were they all remotely relevant in 2008? - I mean it's often when I read about them changing some familiar I ask myself 'what was this one again'. Skilling ones and beast of burdens are relatively clear what their role is, but the stuff mainly intended for combat - there's just way too many of them to even give them a distinct role.

The best they probably could do in there would be choosing a main fighter every 10 levels (certainly fewer starting at medium levels and high levels do not need to be changed, since this currently does work), while the remainder is reworked for some utility function with some slight combat capabilities.

But generally I just do not really feel like summoning is ready to become a 120 skill (even though it already was mentioned for that quite a few years ago). Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

05-Dec-2022 10:26:42 - Last edited on 05-Dec-2022 10:27:14 by Rikornak

Colossus823
Apr Member 2022

Colossus823

Posts: 182 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said :
The issue is, that they've initially released so many familiars with rather random functionality - were they all remotely relevant in 2008? - I mean it's often when I read about them changing some familiar I ask myself 'what was this one again'. Skilling ones and beast of burdens are relatively clear what their role is, but the stuff mainly intended for combat - there's just way too many of them to even give them a distinct role.

The best they probably could do in there would be choosing a main fighter every 10 levels (certainly fewer starting at medium levels and high levels do not need to be changed, since this currently does work), while the remainder is reworked for some utility function with some slight combat capabilities.

But generally I just do not really feel like summoning is ready to become a 120 skill (even though it already was mentioned for that quite a few years ago).
I would say: yes and no.

There aren't really too many familiars, it is just that the familiars we have haven't changed since EoC. The overall majority are melee.

If we consider the three combat classes, maybe even the different styles, and some hybrid/alle class familiars, we might need even more familiars to fill the gaps.

But even considering that, most fighter familiars are not special and once one familiar is better than the other, there is no reason why you should use a weaker one. Nothing to see here.

11-Dec-2022 15:11:27 - Last edited on 11-Dec-2022 15:12:15 by Colossus823

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The thing is - it's basically like lots of old things - they were introduced as melee things exclusively (the term meleescape didn't existed without reason) - that's not the fault of the EoC, which actually brought in more variety (just not for old summ, that is), I am more than certain that most of them haven't seen the light of the day before that either. Since when most things are identical anyway, you'll use the most economical to use things - or just the one best fitted for the job.

I certainly haven't taken the other two styles into account as well here - so it obviously should be a main fighter every 10 levels for
all three styles
- repurposing
existing familiars wherever feasible
- (certainly fewer starting at medium levels and high levels do not need to be changed, since this currently does work), while the remainder is reworked for some utility function with some slight combat capabilities - or even something as you suggested: a hybrid fighter. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

11-Dec-2022 15:28:09 - Last edited on 11-Dec-2022 15:37:03 by Rikornak

Colossus823
Apr Member 2022

Colossus823

Posts: 182 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said :
The thing is - it's basically like lots of old things - they were introduced as melee things exclusively (the term meleescape didn't existed without reason) - that's not the fault of the EoC, which actually brought in more variety (just not for old summ, that is), I am more than certain that most of them haven't seen the light of the day before that either. Since when most things are identical anyway, you'll use the most economical to use things - or just the one best fitted for the job.

I certainly haven't taken the other two styles into account as well here - so it obviously should be a main fighter every 10 levels for
all three styles
- repurposing
existing familiars wherever feasible
- (certainly fewer starting at medium levels and high levels do not need to be changed, since this currently does work), while the remainder is reworked for some utility function with some slight combat capabilities - or even something as you suggested: a hybrid fighter.
Even when re-purposing I think we won't have enough familiars in certain tiers. This requires a whole different thread.

Anyway, we both agree there can be no 120 Summoning without a rework of the whole skill. Nothing to see here.

11-Dec-2022 16:54:17 - Last edited on 11-Dec-2022 16:56:23 by Colossus823

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