RuneScape Forum Archive | Best MMO feeling in years

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I am very glad to see so many MMO players participating in the open world Wilderness Flash Events. It has been years since we have hundreds of players helping each others out in the open world in Jagex's games.

I can't forget RS3 FSW too. Look at all those game worlds with hundreds of fresh players each! That's what

Massively Multiplayer

Online RPG is. RS3 has always been a bona fide RPG with all the great stories, game worlds and characters, but in recents years it has basically been a co-op game with a small group of players in raids, AoD, Rago and such, not really that "massively multiplayer".

RS3 is MMO again thanks to events like Wilderness Flash Events and RS3 FSW. Way to go Jagex!

20-Oct-2022 23:16:04 - Last edited on 20-Oct-2022 23:20:07 by Dilbert2001

Nov

2003

A Cole

Posts: 14,682 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Flash Events will be as good as dead content as soon as the majority of players have received their trims and/or dark cores.

Just by throwing a load of high levelled rewards at new content doesn't make that content good, nor worthy of returning to once other content that has more rewarding content has been released. Adding in trim requirements only makes people detest the content further because they feel forced into it, rather than them feeling naturally drawn to a quality piece of content.

Most players I've come across at the events say they can't wait till they never have to do them again.

Jagex need to start looking at the quality of their updates, because the standard has slipped severely over the past year or so.

~A~

20-Oct-2022 23:58:10

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If you have watched the livestream 2 days ago, you should know they are doing the Flash Events after researching many games that do them successfully. Obviously so many players are doing them not just because of the reward.

If Flash Events aren't fun, they won't do it regardless of the rewards. Let's say instead of Flash Events, they do Wildy Speedskiling and Speedkilling by repeatedly grinding the same thing over and over 9,000 times, I doubt many players will show up even if they have good rewards.

21-Oct-2022 00:52:09

Oct

2023

Sylvanheart

Posts: 222 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'd have to agree with A Cole on this.

I'm not saying the events aren't enjoyable for those who like them (like any other part of a game). And actually, the loot seems good enough that, as an Iron player, I could see myself doing them just for drops. For example, according to the Wiki at present, the Very Wild Sack has:

Black Dragon Egg (Common!)
Draconic Visage (Uncommon!)
Wildy Weapons (Rare, but better rates than other sources)
Reward Caskets
Large quantities of raw coins and high coin yield necronium salvage (Common!)

That's a great source of cash and certain hard-to-get items for Iron players.

However, the content overall is designed to be a cheap, short-lived event. For most players, it will be alive only until people get their achievements and then it will be difficult to find anyone to do it with, if not utterly dead.

You also mention that it's drawn from what other MMOs are doing "successfully". I would argue that this is a problematic trend in games of all sorts these days. In fact, the problem is "trends" themselves. Games (especially major games) have long since stopped fostering creativity and originality; the things that produce real quality out of the passion of the designers. Like many other things in modern society, the game industry has succumbed to avarice. An unfortunate inevitability with anything that becomes popular enough that people can farm it (IRL) for money. But I am digressing a little.

Jagex is somewhere awkwardly in between a major AAA studio and a small but passionate indie studio. They clearly want to be AAA and like so many other studios, they try to emulate whatever is popular. I mean, why wouldn't they right? They need players to survive. That's the real kicker. In order to survive, studios have to basically sell their soul.

Continued...

21-Oct-2022 11:27:01

Oct

2023

Sylvanheart

Posts: 222 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

But popular is not always better. And I think that what not just Jagex but many of the players here need to understand is that it's okay if you don't make big bucks and expand. It's okay if the game gets smaller. Instead of constantly releasing cheap, expendable updates every week or two to keep the completionists playing and the whales paying (heh... that just slipped out unintentionally), it's fine to just take your time. Put passion into your work and take more time to gradually morph the game back into something that supports a smaller but more passionate playerbase. Because nothing lasts forever. Certainly not if the creator keeps cheaply expanding it like this.

I often see veteran players here saying things I consider out of touch. For example, I read something earlier along the lines of "Well, you have to think about the new players who aren't 200m Herblore yet," ...in context it was said as if achieving 200m herblore is something that players are now expected to achieve fairly easily on the way to the "endgame". RuneScape is not that kind of game. It's not the kind of game where you push players quickly through a grindy slog to get to the "endgame". I have over 1000 hours logged on this account now and am not even close. Certainly not to 200m Herblore. Sitting at 4.1m in that at the moment and I'm not even that casual a player.

And yet the updates they keep releasing are totally in line with what grind-to-endgame MMOs do.

Anyways, I don't want to go on forever. I'll leave things off with a song I've been enjoying lately that rather speaks to these issues. Billy Joel's Vienna :

21-Oct-2022 11:41:50 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2022 14:17:02 by Sylvanheart

Oct

2023

Sylvanheart

Posts: 222 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Verse

Slow down, you crazy child
You're so ambitious for a juvenile
But then if you're so smart
Tell me why are you still so afraid, hmm?

Where's the fire, what's the hurry about
You'd better cool it off before you burn it out
You've got so much to do
And only so many hours in a day

-Chorus-

Verse

Slow down, you're doin' fine
You can't be everything you want to be
Before your time
Although it's so romantic
On the borderline, tonight
Tonight
Too bad, but it's the life you lead
You're so ahead of yourself
That you forgot what you need
Though you can see when you're wrong
You know you can't always see when you're right
You're right

Won't write it all. But Jagex is definitely so ahead of themselves that they forgot what they need

21-Oct-2022 11:45:12 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2022 11:52:37 by Sylvanheart

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"Black Dragon Egg (Common!)
Draconic Visage (Uncommon!)
Wildy Weapons (Rare, but better rates than other sources)
Reward Caskets
Large quantities of raw coins and high coin yield necronium salvage (Common!)"

None of these are rare drop. Most of these are on the Wildy Drop table, and can be dropped by any Wildy mobs any time. So players are definitely not just going for the "rare" drop there.

When you say players are going for the achievements, you already told us achievements are fun, regardless they are Wildy or somewhere else. Why do all these people going for Wildy achievement suddenly while they have a lot of other achievements to do all the time?

I never see anywhere anytime RS3 proclaimed to be a "big" game. There are almost so modest they only have a smaller number of worlds instead of putting out tens of worlds with just a few players on each one for each project. They are also on the bottom list of MMOs in term of influencers and promotions. We aren't talking about "popularity" or pretending to be popular here. We are talking about whether the actual real players in the game feel whether the game is MMO, regardless how big or small that group of actual real players are.

Grind to endgame? Wildy Flash Events and RS3 style FSW are definitely the counter example of grind to endgame. They are new absolutely new optional ways players can progress in the game the MMO way - and that is playing with massively multiplayer and helping each others out instead of repeatedly doing the same time over and over again and compete with themselves, themselves and themselves only.

21-Oct-2022 15:35:00

Feb

2022

Jack Flac

Posts: 6,207 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Original message details are unavailable.
But popular is not always better. And I think that what not just Jagex but many of the players here need to understand is that it's okay if you don't make big bucks and expand. It's okay if the game gets smaller. Instead of constantly releasing cheap, expendable updates every week or two to keep the completionists playing and the whales paying (heh... that just slipped out unintentionally), it's fine to just take your time. Put passion into your work and take more time to gradually morph the game back into something that supports a smaller but more passionate playerbase. Because nothing lasts forever. Certainly not if the creator keeps cheaply expanding it like this.

I often see veteran players here saying things I consider out of touch. For example, I read something earlier along the lines of "Well, you have to think about the new players who aren't 200m Herblore yet," ...in context it was said as if achieving 200m herblore is something that players are now expected to achieve fairly easily on the way to the "endgame". RuneScape is not that kind of game. It's not the kind of game where you push players quickly through a grindy slog to get to the "endgame". I have over 1000 hours logged on this account now and am not even close. Certainly not to 200m Herblore. Sitting at 4.1m in that at the moment and I'm not even that casual a player.

And yet the updates they keep releasing are totally in line with what grind-to-endgame MMOs do.

Anyways, I don't want to go on forever. I'll leave things off with a song I've been enjoying lately that rather speaks to these issues. Billy Joel's Vienna : The only things I want brought over from other games are some of the social stuff, and maybe some of the combat stuff. If we're gonna try to imitate other other games combat, at least don't half ass it and leave it a broken mess yah know?

But yeah this idea we must GRIND GRIND GRIND is stupid. Leader of The Enemy ||

The opposite of Justice is simply another Justice. What is Evil is subjective to each person.

YOU

are their evil

21-Oct-2022 19:05:38

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

They explicitly said in the livestream they are replacing some of the combat events from the games they researched like GW2 with skilling. This is also a good thing, especially in FSW a lot of players seemingly are more interested in the xp rates than the items rewards.

It is understandable as MMORPG traditionally focused on progression. Getting xp in a non grindy way with a massive open world crowd really gives players the good feeling.

21-Oct-2022 20:26:35

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

We are going to have a 2 week Halloween events in a couple of days too.

We will see more spooky MMO experience when we see players doing miniquests and coming in for freebie treats every day.

I will be wearing my Spooky Blindfold and pretend I can solo 4000% Telos blind folded like EvilLucario. That's scary! O_o

22-Oct-2022 18:34:06

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Best MMO feeling in years