RuneScape Forum Archive | Kharidian Colossi

Penny Drakis

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As an Amascutian, Icthlarin's dialogue after Sliske's Endgame bothered me --
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My mother and father, Elidinis and Tumeken, lived among their followers, not above them. They wanted to be as they were. But there was one thing that, try as they might, they could never have. A family. At least, not what mortals would consider to be a family.

As I was told, they each took a piece of themselves, a spark of their divine power, and combined them into something new. Something formed of the both of them. They then placed this energy into the two beings most akin to their family. I was their pet dog. Not the most esteemed of beginnings, but it is not one I am shamed of. My sister, Amascut, began similar humble beginnings, as their beloved cat, though she has long fallen away from that person.

So when the labyrinth robbed me of my divine nature, I began to revert back to that simple creature.

This reduced Amascut and Ictharin to about the same level as Scabaras, Het, Apmeken, and Crondis, with the only difference being that Elidinis was involved in the creation of the former two but not involved in creation of the later four. Well, today while I was idly thinking about the Menaphos library (and what kind of heretical documents may be on its shelves), I remembered animalistic colossi like Loarnab, Araxxi, Seiryu, Thallassus, and Valluta were common during the First Age, at least in the theorizing Charos has done.

And I thought, what if Icthlarin was misremembering his own origin? Then I reread the dialog --
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As I was told, they each took a piece of themselves, a spark of their divine power...
Icthlarin doesn't remember his origin at all. He was told this story about his origin by Tumeken (and maybe Elidinis)

So what I wish to propose is:

Amascut and Icthlarin were already semi-divine colossi worshiped in the Kharidian jungle when Tumeken brought his people into the subcontinent
Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "

Let there be light.

"

And then there were none .

22-Dec-2020 08:57:29

Penny Drakis

Posts: 789 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Most gods on Gielinor are remarkably solitary and most religions on Gielinor can be described as monolotrous, henotheistic, or kathenotheistic; believers do not deny the existence of other gods but reserve worship for one god. That one god can be considered the Supreme God, the other gods can be evil, disobedient to the Supreme and undeserving of worship, or they can be good gods subservient to the Supreme which can at most be asked for intercession with the Supreme. Or the Supreme God can be so removed from humanity and common reality that it makes no sense to even worship or ask the Supreme for anything (reminds you of the Elder Gods, doesn't it?) and local Lords of the land, minor gods of this village or that mountain, are the gods that receive worship. Or there may be no supreme god; you just worship the god of the land you were born in and that your family taught you to worship.

Some scholars of religion believe that this is the state of religions just before they become truly polytheistic. The Supreme God might just be the local god of a people that has just conquered their neighbors. Charos hypothesizes something like this in "Colossi & the time of colossi"
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The late First Age became a battleground, albeit a relatively tame one compared with the widespread carnage that would come later in history. Gods and colossi stole power from one another and gradually their territories expanded. It was during this time that Saradomin first came to prominence, and into this complex situation that Zaros arrived, ushering in the Second Age.
Other scholars believe this to be the state of the world before true monotheism arises, when a sole Supreme Being becomes the sole object of worship, the other gods become nothing more than obedient angels and disobedient devils. Others still believe this is what comes before a dualistic religion arises, where the battle between good and evil, Ahuras and Devas, is central. But this is all besides the point. Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "

Let there be light.

"

And then there were none .

22-Dec-2020 08:58:11

Penny Drakis

Posts: 789 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Religion is always in flux, flowing between states of Animism, Ancestor Worship, Shamanism, Polytheism, Idolatry, Monotheism, Dualism, and Monolotry with spasms of Nationalistic State Religion sprinkled here and there, despite the promises of priests that the one true religion is eternal. After 4000 years or even as little as 2000 years, your religion will be unrecognizable, if it still exists.

Funny that the major ages of Gielinor are all about that length. Time will destroy everything.

Anyway, in a world where the gods and colossi had and have an actual physical presence in the world, things do progress a little different, but perhaps only in speed. Charos proposes a monolotrous world after Guthix hid himself away, perhaps becoming that distant, unreachable, unrelatable Supreme God in the hearts of his followers in only a short time. And this is when people started turning toward local divine beasts, lords of the land and sea, and towards conquering gods from beyond the stars. And what I propose is that at this time, Tumeken, who may or may not have been worshiped at a solar deity at this point, took a people into the Kharidian Jungle into what he thought was empty but fruitful lands. The Kharid, though, already had peoples, and divine beasts, for the Heart of Gielinor was closest to the surface in the Kharid, and the Eldest of the Elder Gods rested there too, her nest within earshot of the warm Southern Sea and its bright sands.

Tumeken and his people were not conquerors, and they didn't insist on the monolotry they experienced elsewhere. Tumeken encountered Elidinis (either a goddess from out of the realm or an Ascended Colossus) and her people at the headlands of the mighty Elid, in what is now the Emirate of Al Kharid. The two peoples merged, and naturally the love of the two peoples reflected or was reflected by the love of their two gods, Tumeken and Elidinis, who became even more human and relatable to their people because of their marriage. Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "

Let there be light.

"

And then there were none .

22-Dec-2020 08:59:12

Penny Drakis

Posts: 789 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If we find representations of Tumeken and Elidinis from before this era, we may only see images of divine falcons that soar far above the people and and divine hippopotami that wade in waters no human dares to enter. After this event, you could very well find changes in religious iconography, Tumeken probably first appears as a falcon-headed man in this era, and Elidinis a hippopotamus-headed woman, perhaps as wide and as fertile (or even as pregnant) as the mighty Elid, which at that time must of been even a wider and deeper river back then, when the Kharid was still receiving a significant portion of the rainfall that now falls on Morytania.

Further south, the influences of the Heart and the resting place of Jas could have raised many divine colossi, which became even more divine and more sentient with the worship of fragments of Guthix's people that had traveled so far from the World Gate. Anti-social colossi only extracted fear from the people and only grew more wild and frightening, while from social creatures arose colossi that adopted and protected the people from the demon haunted world.

I imagine this was the true origin of Amascut. She was the paradoxical Maned Lioness, protector of her pride from the roaming male lions who would slaughter the young of the pride in order to speed along the estrus cycle of their mothers. Unable to bear young for the same reasons Elidinis couldn't, but also for reasons of her own, and paradoxically a fertility goddess who would find male lions who would submit to only laying with the lionesses in her pride who were ready to become mothers. So Amascut's pride grew faster than other prides, which suffered from culling by the roaming males when their own male died or was defeated, because instead of a mortal king, the pride had an immortal queen. Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "

Let there be light.

"

And then there were none .

22-Dec-2020 09:00:26

Penny Drakis

Posts: 789 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The pride grew large enough to encompass several human villages. And while occasionally the lionesses of the pride culled a human, Amascut insisted on only killing the true monsters among the humans, the kinslayers, murderers of the village's children. Eventually grieving mothers would learn to bring the corpses of their children to Amascut to beg for retribution and for the replacement of their dead children. Slowly Amascut and the human villages domesticated each other, and Amascut became worshiped as a devourer of the dead, a goddess of rebirth, and a slayer of monsters. When there where no more monsters among the humans, Amascut and her lionesses hunted further afield, seeking other monsters to slay and expanding their territory, for now Amascut desired to devour only the most evil hearts.

As for Icthlarin, I imagine something similar happened except jackals aren't really that social. They do hunt in pairs though. He does mention something about herding, and that is very much a pair activity sometimes. I can't think of a fanciful origin for Icthlarin and Icthlarin worship at the moment though, sorry. An exercise left to the reader perhaps?

Anyhow, as the cults of Amascut and Icthlarin were pacifying the jungles and savannas in their own ways, the combined culture of Tumeken and Elidinis worshipers was making its way down the river Elid and the many tributaries that must have fed into it at the time. There must have been some conflict, but not an outright war of conquest. But since Icthlarin mentions that both Amuscut and he were beloved pets of Tumeken and Elidinis, it suggests something unfortunate for Amascut's and Icthlarin's people. While domesticating a wild animal often implies the domesticator is willing to share food, shelter, warmth and other resources with the domesticated animal, that animal's spirit must be broken, it's desire for freedom replaced by a desire for security. Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "

Let there be light.

"

And then there were none .

22-Dec-2020 09:01:10

Penny Drakis

Posts: 789 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I can't think of what terrible thing happened to Icthlarin's people to break their spirit and yoke their god to the will of Tumeken (and maybe Elidinis, there's so little lore about her that it is difficult to know) as a loyal dog. But perhaps Icthlarin found in Tumeken the perfect herding partner, someone who could give him direction and reward him for his work far better than the humans ever could. And maybe his people already had broken spirits from being chased all around the Kharid by Icthlarin. Sure he kept them safe from harm, sure he lead them to verdant pastures where they could grow fat, but why? He was just as frightening as the other monsters, only he never ate them. Just nipped at the slow and the stubborn. It might have even been a relief when the dog was tamed.

For Amascut, it must have been confusing. For her people, more so. They had grown used to slaying monsters and those driven to madness by the monsters. The savannas and the jungles gave them with at they need, even the earth was yielding weapons made of keen metal and the knowledge Amascut by eating the hearts of the worst monsters was passed down to make her lionesses and her people more efficient killers. But test them as much as they could, Tumeken and Elidinis, and later their dog, would not strike back. Their people would not attack, but they would not retreat. These gods were not monsters, they had too little evil in their hearts; their people confident and firm, brave and faithful to their god and his precepts even at death in the mouth of a lioness or the tip of a spear. They would not attack, but they would not retreat, they only advanced into lands that Amascut's pride had already cleared of monsters when the pride had it's eyes elsewhere. And so it continued, until there were no more monsters to keep Tumeken and Elidinis' people at bay, until Amascut's pride and people realized it fell into a trap. Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "

Let there be light.

"

And then there were none .

22-Dec-2020 09:01:48

Penny Drakis

Posts: 789 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The destruction that Amascut brought down on her own people might have been as bad as the devastating blow Tumeken and Elidinis let fall, but either way, Amascut's pride was diminished, her people made to submit, and Amascut, their fierce goddess, slayer of monsters, was naught but a pet cat to Tumeken and Elidinis.

Eventually though, as Tumeken and Elidinis' people demanded their gods be more human and more relatable, Tumeken and Elidinis also desired to be more human and to have that family that Tumeken was missing so much. It wasn't enough that Amascut and Icthlarin were pets -- they became more human too and became Tumeken and Elidinis' offspring instead. Icthlarin became a jackal headed man and shepherd of the souls of the dead, and Amascut became a statuesque woman with the head of a maned lioness, judge of the dead and rebirther of heroes.

How divine pets became even more divine humanlike deities is hearsay from an unreliable narrator at the moment but this likely happened when Amascut and Ictharin's people were no longer subservient to Tumeken and Elidinis people and all four people groups were well on their way to becoming one.

And thus the Menaphite/Kharidian pantheon is established, at least until the creation of the minor gods or the ecological destruction wrought by the self detonation of Tumeken in the Second Age, whichever came first.

Phew... that sort of got away from me and morphed from a lore theory into speculative fic. Any thoughts? Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "

Let there be light.

"

And then there were none .

22-Dec-2020 09:02:51

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