forums.rs

Forums

Transcendental Creatrices?

Quick find code: 341-342-539-65334763

of 5
AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,792 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Edit: Friends,

I have decided to bump this thread again because the information it contains from Mod Rowl*y is of great value.


Original message details are unavailable.
[Mod Rowl*y:] If the elder gods could be represented by anything, they would all be facets of time. Ful is described in terms of constancy (TzHaar); Wen is related to reversion (Oracle); Jas to progression; [Bik] to alteration; and Mah to potential (Zaros).

Click here to go to page 2 for Analysis: Round 1!

Mod Rowley said :
I might be able to give some clarity, or at least spur more discussion.

Time may not be the most accurate grouping for the five - perhaps states of being is slightly more accurate (or perhaps just more confusing). :P

There isn't supposed to be an inter-relation between the elements and the aspects of time - e.g. constancy isn't directly intended to be related with fire. In fact, the classical elements are only used for some of the elder god designs for look and feel; these elder gods don't strictly represent the classical elements at all.

The ideas of reversion, constancy and progression were intended to be read as past, present and future (I believe). Potential and alteration are more likely leaning more towards states than time. That said, constancy and alteration could also be considered as two sides of the same coin - both representing the present, a choice (i.*. to do something or do nothing).

I believe that at least part of the intent is to make the elder gods unknowable, beyond comprehension. They can't easily be classified in mortal terms.


Click here to go to page 2 for Analysis: Round 2!

26-Mar-2014 14:43:42 - Last edited on 21-Jan-2015 23:41:23 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,792 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Rowley said :
Certainly, our thinking of applying past, present and future is in this more experiential way (rather than knowing the future), hence progression rather than premonition. This also fits in terms of the pecking order, with Jas, Ful and Wen on one side, and Bik and Mah on the other.

My thought is that, if Mah had not been stillborn, the result would have been no mortal life. Mah would understand the potential for life to become conscious, and would have suppressed it in previous cycles (whether instinctively or knowingly).

This might suggest the dragonkin homeworld was the last one created before Freneskae, and should have set off alarm bells that whatever led to Mah's current condition actually started back then. It's got me thinking about links between the dragonkin homeworld and Iaia.

I also really like the thought that Mah always carries a sense of childlike wonder, all the way up to Jas as the font of wisdom and experience, and what Mah's corruption actually caused was predominantly the loss of memory. It gives each of the elder gods a place and a reason for being, each of them contributing to creation and revision in different ways, and not just being slightly weaker versions of Jas.


Analysis: Round 3 coming soon!


EDIT: For anyone wondering, 'creatrix' and 'creatrices' are feminine forms of 'creator' and 'creators.' 'Transcendental' means something is part of the very fabric of experience itself; it is a necessary condition for experience to occur.

EDIT: Other threads of mine I'm keeping around:

Planar, Magic, & Tradition
Let's Divide the Years by 10
Nail Beasts & the Elder Hammer

26-Mar-2014 14:44:16 - Last edited on 02-Jan-2017 21:52:04 by AttilaSquare

Huknar
Jan Member 2016

Huknar

Posts: 1,827 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think it really is more of a case that they exist, and the universe is a reflection of their existance. The only reason we have earth, and fire and water and air, is because of Bik, Ful, Wen and Jas respectively. The same goes for the idea of time.

I have a feeling that each revision, each universe is a collection of new elements. Incomprehensible to us because we are beings of these five elements.

Perhaps even time itself is replaced with something new. It's hard to consider the impossible though.

It's like trying to understand any higher dimensions than three as a three dimensional being. Or death without dying.

27-Mar-2014 01:38:35

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,792 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
That makes sense. It is interesting to think about how universes could be different without assuming any basic laws or elements or schemes. This very question is what draws me to transcendental philosophy since it doesn't take anything empirical except consciousness itself for granted.

But could there be anything systematic about the five particular time-determinations we have now in this current universe or multiverse?

27-Mar-2014 01:52:51

Huknar
Jan Member 2016

Huknar

Posts: 1,827 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Looking at the five designations, I think two are a little shady based on the scale of these elder gods. I fear my conclusion only applies to mortals.

Obviously Ful represents the present, Wen to the past, Jas to the future.

Bik and and Mah, from the Q and A, for what I can gather, represent knowledge used from the past and the future. Alteration referring to one's mistakes and using that knowledge to avoid them and potential referring to ones possibilities and using that knowledge to steer towards them. Both of which seem like very mortal values and seem strange for an elder god to represent.

I am however not entirely sure how their elemental compositions relate to their temporal affiliations. I suppose fire is a constant element. It burns, like a marker on a line. The point in a timeline that is happening "now". It burns, taking potential energy, turning that into energy and leaving ash. There is no past or future about it, it is the catalyst for both.

Wen, supposedly related to ice gets a little cloudy. I suppose that ice represents frozen water. An event that is more related to something past, a moment that is quite literally frozen. It contains something that flowed freely as a single, constant block of what "was". An image of the past.

Jas I am a little clueless on. With relations to sand and air I really don't know, unless of course it refers to the real world perception of the ultimate future. Nothingness. Sand. Desert. Life and the world dying as all things end. Whether that applies to the RuneScape universe is yet to be seen.

Bik, representing nature could mean her temporal affiliation refers to nature's tendency to make constant mistakes and evolve from them. Though I think she might more solely represent soil and earth rather than nature. I'm not sure.

Mah I really don't know about.

27-Mar-2014 02:24:59

Mod Rowley

Mod Rowley

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
I might be able to give some clarity, or at least spur more discussion.

Time may not be the most accurate grouping for the five - perhaps states of being is slightly more accurate (or perhaps just more confusing). :P

There isn't supposed to be an inter-relation between the elements and the aspects of time - e.g. constancy isn't directly intended to be related with fire. In fact, the classical elements are only used for some of the elder god designs for look and feel; these elder gods don't strictly represent the classical elements at all.

The ideas of reversion, constancy and progression were intended to be read as past, present and future (I believe). Potential and alteration are more likely leaning more towards states than time. That said, constancy and alteration could also be considered as two sides of the same coin - both representing the present, a choice (i.e. to do something or do nothing).

I believe that at least part of the intent is to make the elder gods unknowable, beyond comprehension. They can't easily be classified in mortal terms.

27-Mar-2014 12:47:50

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The way I think of the elements is that their bodies are essentially made of that element and that is why we have elementals on Gielinor (possibly fiends too though I'm not sure about that) as they could simply be elementals that came about simply by breaking off of Elder Gods.

If Mah had arrived on Gielinor light and dark energy elementals would exist ofc.
Lewis
|
Quester
|
Scottish

27-Mar-2014 12:57:30

Quick find code: 341-342-539-65334763 Back to Top