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My Ramblings on Nature Spirits

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Summerleaf
Nov Member 2012

Summerleaf

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Ok, so I have a couple points to make, theories to put out there, and questions to ask, and I'm not exactly sure how to articulate them, so they're probably gonna come out as ramblings, so I apologize, but you guys can theory-craft with my obvious madness after you read it. Maybe I'll edit it later and clear it up when my brain begins working again.

~~~

Questions:

Filliman Tarlock
(the Nature Spirt in Mort Meyer). Why did he disappear after Fairy Tale 1, but still appears in Temple Trekking? Is this just an error in coding or w/e. Is he supposed to still be there?

Can Nature Sprits take various forms depending on their envoiornments? For example,
Ashulot Reis
appears to share similarities with the dungeon around her, Filliman turned green, like the Swamp, etc.

How many other Nature Spirits are out there? Ice spirits in some cold place? Water in some River (inb4 Lady of the Lake after Reworking that Questline)?

~~~~

Theories:

The Kendal (not the fake one in the Quest) is actually a Nature Spirit (or a shapeshifter, or both). The Mountain Tribe, obviously, follows Guthix and V, but given that the Fremmy were once Nomadic, would it make sense for them to have, during their Nomadic times, have turned to worshipping Nature Spirits, as like, Spirit Guides or something? The Mountain Tribe has a "pantheon" due to their use of the term "Gods", so there's obviously more, but the other tribes make no mention of other Gods.

Along with that, I would not be surprised if the Karamjan Gods were some time of Spirit, Nature or not.

The
Liquid Gold Nymph
is a Spirit as well. She was once a Dwarven Goldsmith.

12-Nov-2017 18:30:41 - Last edited on 12-Nov-2017 18:34:29 by Summerleaf

Marine Doge

Marine Doge

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Firstly we should prob figure out the distinctions between all the things termed "spirit".

We got spirits of the afterlives which are the souls of deceased people,

Spirits of the spirit plane which are (mostly/probably) not-deceased spirits and are formed by belief and desire,

And then we have those nymphs/nature spirits like you pointed out, which we have... no idea about?
They're probably just formed by a strongly spiritual person sorta fusing their soul with the local anima of an area through means of ritual and belief and stuff, I think.
And/or minor aspects of the anima manifesting itself, rather than major aspects like Vorago. So sorta like the sea creatures of the East, but weaker?

PS: Did anything come of that VIP question thread, or did none of the lore questions get answered? Mods pls notice me

12-Nov-2017 22:16:05 - Last edited on 12-Nov-2017 22:19:24 by Marine Doge

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Marine Doge said :
Spirits of the spirit plane which are (mostly/probably) not-deceased spirits and are formed by belief and desire,


I'm gonna ramble for a bit here, but the short version is I (kinda) think they are.

You see, according to Lord Amlodd there are two main theories concerning the Spirit Plane. It's either some dream-realm formed by belief, so a Spirit Wolf would be a manifestation of the idea of wolfiness. This is what the Amlodd themselves believe. The other theory is that it's an afterlife for animals/beings of limited intellect.

Now the Ugthanatos book dropped by the Camel Warriors implies that the former theory is true, and that might have been the end of the debate. However, we've since learned that the afterlife is formed by the belief of deceased souls . After that revelation it seems more likely to me that both theories are correct. The Spirit Plane isn't unique in the sense that it can manifest ideas, because that's a trait shared by all afterlives. That being said, not every spirit being is necessarily a deceased animals. A spirit wolf may well be just the idea of wolfiness, but the point is that those ideas are shaped by the dead animals that pass on to the realm. Maybe they're even changed by it.

------
Anyway over to what the thread's actually about

Nature Spirits (Human) - Does Filiman really disappear after Fairy Tale Part 1? I seem to remember he's just inside the Cave, but I don't have membership atm to check. Either way he's clearly the soul of an actual person. Judging by the quest, and Ashuelot Reis' dialogue, it's most likely a ritual Guthix passed down by Guthix after he gained insight into the anima mundi. They seem to fuse with their local nature, which might be why Reis looks different from Filiman.

Nymphs - I think Stu's toyed with the idea of Nymphs being native to Renmark, but that's not currently in-game canon.

Continued in next post. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

12-Nov-2017 23:47:48 - Last edited on 12-Nov-2017 23:48:30 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I imagine the Renmark connection primarily comes from the fact that Dryads, traditionally a variant of nymphs, are in the Enchanted Valley. They could be ghosts as well like you suggest, though I don't think the Liquid Gold Nymph looks a lot like a dwarf.


Walkers

Solak, Vorago and Telos are currently (and hopefully) the only known Walkers . Considering Vorago seemed to have memories of a past life when drained in Sliske's Maze, it's possible that they're not all that different from Guthixian Nature Spirits. If they are anima-infused humans I imagine the main difference is that they are directly created by the anima mundi, without the need of a ritual to "establish a connection". Their greater strength is simply because the Anima Mundi needs them to be strong.

Spirits in General

So we know there are humans/ghosts that can become spirits, which may even include the Walkers, but that does not leave out the possibility that there are other "pure" spirits created directly from the Anima Mundi. The sea monsters seem to be an example of this. Nymphs would certainly fit if they're not tied to Renmark.


Fremennik

I had a theory, somewhat similar to yours, that before the Fremennik adopted Guthixianism they worshipped various nature spirits. The wolves Fenrir, Hati and Sköll (btw Garm should totally be added for the next one), as well as the Kendal and Fossegrimen would be examples of this. Draugen I see as more of a ghost, but it could fit in there somewhere. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 00:33:59 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2017 00:43:45 by AesirWarrior

Marine Doge

Marine Doge

Posts: 1,213 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
AesirWarrior said :

You see, according to Lord Amlodd there are two main theories concerning the Spirit Plane. It's either some dream-realm formed by belief, so a Spirit Wolf would be a manifestation of the idea of wolfiness. This is what the Amlodd themselves believe. The other theory is that it's an afterlife for animals/beings of limited intellect.

Now the Ugthanatos book dropped by the Camel Warriors implies that the former theory is true, and that might have been the end of the debate. However, we've since learned that the afterlife is formed by the belief of deceased souls . After that revelation it seems more likely to me that both theories are correct. The Spirit Plane isn't unique in the sense that it can manifest ideas, because that's a trait shared by all afterlives. That being said, not every spirit being is necessarily a deceased animals. A spirit wolf may well be just the idea of wolfiness, but the point is that those ideas are shaped by the dead animals that pass on to the realm. Maybe they're even changed by it.

My main gripe with the theory of the Spirit Plane being an afterlife for lower intellect creatures is that you can summon highly intelligent creatures from it (gorajo, mammoths, unsure about unicorns' and light creatures' level of sentience but probably those too) as well as creatures that definitely wouldn't go there for an afterlife (demons and nihils), so I think the Spirit Plane is probably just like... a layer of existence where anima is shaped by shared beliefs and ideas and desires.
That said, summoning demons and nihils with druidic summoning might be more of a game mechanic thing with lore not applied, since we know the druidic method of summoning is different from the arcane method of summoning (mentioned by Grayzag) where you literally just summon the actual creatures from wherever they are. Mods pls notice me

13-Nov-2017 00:34:43 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2017 00:38:36 by Marine Doge

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Marine Doge said :
...

Do we know for a fact demons and nihil are summoned from the Spirit Plane? Just because all other familiars are doesn't mean they have to as well. The Phoenix familiar for example doesn't come from the Spirit Plane, it's a spectral version of the original one, summoned by using part of its essence. Demons have of course traditionally been summoned from other realms as well, most notably by Bilrach. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 00:43:14

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You could probably say something about the intelligence of various animals as well. Is it canon that almost every animal in the game can be talked too. Does C.A.T.T.L.E. actually exist? Even then, I'm open to the idea that Summoning familiars can be summoned from anywhere (or at least any afterlife). As long as you have a piece of the creature's essence it might be possible to call upon a spectral form of it. Maybe the Phoenix is not unique. I suppose you could argue it's even tied to prayer. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 00:53:23

Summerleaf
Nov Member 2012

Summerleaf

Posts: 3,313 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Aesir

Liquid Gold Nymph was a joke, but if you're serious, then she changes her shape, because liquid can do that.

~

Telos, Solak and Vorago were created by the Anima, not Guthix (although Guthix did imbue Solak with some extra stuff obviously). They were created by the Anima for the sole purpose of protecting it. They were not humans. They are not spirits. Your lore in this area is all over the place and confusing.

~

This thread is for NATURE SPIRITS, not the Underworld or Spirit Plane, lets stay on topic, and take those ideas elsewhere.

13-Nov-2017 00:58:17 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2017 01:03:23 by Summerleaf

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,060 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Summerleaf said :
Telos and Vorago were created by the Anima, not Guthix. They were created by the Anima for the sole purpose of protecting it. They were not humans. They are not spirits. Your lore in this area is all over the place and highly incorrect.


No, you are misinterpreting what I'm saying.


I am THEORISING that the Anima construct might be similar to Nature Spirits, because Endgame implied Vorago was of mortal origin. I am not saying they were created by Guthix, I'm saying it might be a similar process to the one Guthix taught the druids. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 01:04:41 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2017 01:04:56 by AesirWarrior

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