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NotFishing

NotFishing

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You should give Zaros a point for all the races he tortured to create the Nehil in the first place. He specifically targeted winged humanoids, which should count as an ethnic group. That should even it out at no points lost or won.

Seren's actions to the Mahjarrat should not count as genocide. She did not wipe them out. On the contrary, she actually prevented them from dying out or being destroyed by Mah.

Saradomin getting the centaurs killed should not count either. You're right about the others he killed, though.

You gave Armadyl a point, which he doesn't really deserve. We have no idea what happened, and can only assume that he killed a god or charged himself up with an Elder Artifact (Sliske mentions he has a secret weapon, and Armadyl swears he will never use it again.)

You're right about Zamorak. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 01:46:30 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 01:49:29 by NotFishing

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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You don't seem to know what the definition of genocide is. The definition of genocide is: "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group."

Seren teaching the Mahjarrat how to perform the rituals is not genocide - they were complicit she was not trying to wipe them out.

Saradomin destroying one city and inadvertently causing a God War by drawing other gods to Naragun with Crown Archival is not genocide - Saradomin wants people to worship him, he isn't going to wipe out a race for no reason. Tuska and her crew were probably responsible for more Naragi deaths.

Even Zamorak nuking Forinthry is arguably not genocide - he wasn't specifically targeting anyone besides Saradomin, Armadyl and Bandos, and was probably not even thinking about the consequences of his actions - he was just being desperate.

The only actual possible genocide known to be committed by any living god is whatever race Saradomin and the Icyene were at war with. And even then it's IMO unlikely it was an outright genocide - it more likely that the race's numbers were crippled by the war, and those few remaining were not enough to form a sustainable breeding population. We don't even know if the race was sentient. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

22-Dec-2016 01:47:23

Vardan

Vardan

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Wahisietel said :
You don't seem to know what the definition of genocide is. The definition of genocide is: "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group."

Seren teaching the Mahjarrat how to perform the rituals is not genocide - they were complicit she was not trying to wipe them out.

Saradomin destroying one city and inadvertently causing a God War by drawing other gods to Naragun with Crown Archival is not genocide - Saradomin wants people to worship him, he isn't going to wipe out a race for no reason. Tuska and her crew were probably responsible for more Naragi deaths.

Even Zamorak nuking Forinthry is arguably not genocide - he wasn't specifically targeting anyone besides Saradomin, Armadyl and Bandos, and was probably not even thinking about the consequences of his actions - he was just being desperate.

The only actual possible genocide known to be committed by any living god is whatever race Saradomin and the Icyene were at war with. And even then it's IMO unlikely it was an outright genocide - it more likely that the race's numbers were crippled by the war, and those few remaining were not enough to form a sustainable breeding population. We don't even know if the race was sentient.
Shhhhhh don't you know the lorum is a place where buzzwords reign supreme?
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

22-Dec-2016 01:48:47

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

Posts: 3,009 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Vardan

Once again, as the individual in charge of the centaurs, Saradomin holds the most responsibility, and as I said previously, I'm not looking at outright acts of genocide, but also indirect actions that led to the extermination of a race. You're free to disagree that it shouldn't count, but since the outcomes are all the same it's not an issue for me.

I'm holding all the gods to the same standards, just like Zamorak didn't directly exterminate the Cthonians, and Seren believed she was helping the Mahjarrat. Whether these actions were justified or not is up for the debate, the outcomes are not.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

22-Dec-2016 02:00:58

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

Posts: 3,009 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wahisietel said :
You don't seem to know what the definition of genocide is. The definition of genocide is: "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group."

Seren teaching the Mahjarrat how to perform the rituals is not genocide - they were complicit she was not trying to wipe them out.

Saradomin destroying one city and inadvertently causing a God War by drawing other gods to Naragun with Crown Archival is not genocide - Saradomin wants people to worship him, he isn't going to wipe out a race for no reason. Tuska and her crew were probably responsible for more Naragi deaths.

Even Zamorak nuking Forinthry is arguably not genocide - he wasn't specifically targeting anyone besides Saradomin, Armadyl and Bandos, and was probably not even thinking about the consequences of his actions - he was just being desperate.

The only actual possible genocide known to be committed by any living god is whatever race Saradomin and the Icyene were at war with. And even then it's IMO unlikely it was an outright genocide - it more likely that the race's numbers were crippled by the war, and those few remaining were not enough to form a sustainable breeding population. We don't even know if the race was sentient.
I said up front what the criteria was, and it is my view that all previous mentioned acts led to the extermination or near extinction of a race. Even 'near extinction' isn't technically genocide but you're free to nitpick technicalities and offer various definitions to interpret, but that's not the purpose of the thread.

If we stuck to strict interpretation it wouldn't be as fun, and if Sliske gets to set the rules for his own game then by golly so do I.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

22-Dec-2016 02:04:19 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 02:29:20 by Unicornz pwn

NotFishing

NotFishing

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Unicornz pwn said :
Once again, as the individual in charge of the centaurs, Saradomin holds the most responsibility

Why isn't Armadyl responsible for the Aviansie?

Why isn't Zaros responsible for the Dragon Riders or Cthonians?

Why isn't Zamorak responsible for the Mahjarrat? Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

22-Dec-2016 02:07:30 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 02:09:54 by NotFishing

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

Posts: 3,009 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NotFishing said :
You should give Zaros a point for all the races he tortured to create the Nehil in the first place. He specifically targeted winged humanoids, which should count as an ethnic group. That should even it out at no points lost or won.

Seren's actions to the Mahjarrat should not count as genocide. She did not wipe them out. On the contrary, she actually prevented them from dying out or being destroyed by Mah.

Saradomin getting the centaurs killed should not count either. You're right about the others he killed, though.

You gave Armadyl a point, which he doesn't really deserve. We have no idea what happened, and can only assume that he killed a god or charged himself up with an Elder Artifact (Sliske mentions he has a secret weapon, and Armadyl swears he will never use it again.)

You're right about Zamorak.
Torturing and mutilating a few beings from several species is nowhere near eradicating them entirely. Definitely not nice, but not genocide.

Seren's actions caused the Mahjarrat to slowly kill themselves off until they were nothing but a remnant. Even the Mahjarrat charge her with the near destruction of their species. She believed what she was doing was right, but it doesn't negate the consequences.

I've previously defended the Centaur's inclusion and as far as Armadyl goes, you must have misread, I have him at 0.
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

22-Dec-2016 02:10:57

Unicornz pwn
Dec Member 2023

Unicornz pwn

Posts: 3,009 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NotFishing said :
Unicornz pwn said :
Once again, as the individual in charge of the centaurs, Saradomin holds the most responsibility

Why isn't Armadyl responsible for the Aviansie?

Why isn't Zaros responsible for the Dragon Riders or Cthonians?

Why isn't Zamorak responsible for the Mahjarrat?
Zamorak shoulders more responsibility for the Aviansie.

Zaros did not cause the riders' infertility, nor did he have any role in the Cthonians being overthrown.

Not really sure how Zamorak can be blamed for the Mahjarrat's present condition...
"Ego Te Provoco."

The Hooded Zarosian

Lorehound Extraordinaire

22-Dec-2016 02:12:25

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