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Spady
Aug Member 2013

Spady

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Runescape at its core back in the early days (classic, RS2) was very grindy. Every attainable goal had easy calculators of time put in = time it took to achieve it.

However, looking at more recent content, and especially this newest skill, literally everything is rng based. Everything. And it got me thinking, why?

Back when SOF/TH was first introduced into the game, people pointed out that Jagex was introducing official gambling into a UK-based game. They pointed out that it may not fly in the UK with it's anti-child-gambling laws. Of course, nothing came of it, but the complainers weren't wrong that gambling is an addiction.

Is Jagex adding more rng because it's addictive? Is that why everything is becoming more rng-based? So you can get hooked on getting that next "win"?

13-Apr-2020 07:45:18

Desupty RS

Desupty RS

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Well I can tell you that it's definitely not a healthy thing especially to those who are really deep into this game. Seeing people around you with pets at level 30 or people receiving Dye on their first couple of clues whilst you're dry for a hundred mil experience or done hundreds of clues, really makes you hate yourself. We tend to compare ourselves with people constantly, even at unconcious level. Social media is so self destructive for that same reason because you're constantly faced with images and videos of people living their best life.

I'd personally like to see less of it and whilst I understand that RNG is a massive factor for any MMO, I do feel like we could definitely lessen the RNG aspect on many things. A guaranteed pet after X xp or improved chance rates at level 99/120/200M just to give you a very quick and easy example.

Monster drops is the type of RNG that's easiest to deal with mentally. Some people get a divine sigil, some people get a spectral sigil. That's fine. There are other ways to make money. But if you sit down for hundreds of hours past 200M to get a pet or a Champion Scroll drop or anything else that is required for a specific goal you have that can't be obtained otherwise, you really start getting into a realm of mental masochism.

13-Apr-2020 15:41:22

Kunst

Kunst

Posts: 1,701 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Desupty RS said :
Well I can tell you that it's definitely not a healthy thing especially to those who are really deep into this game. Seeing people around you with pets at level 30 or people receiving Dye on their first couple of clues whilst you're dry for a hundred mil experience or done hundreds of clues, really makes you hate yourself. We tend to compare ourselves with people constantly, even at unconcious level. Social media is so self destructive for that same reason because you're constantly faced with images and videos of people living their best life.

I'd personally like to see less of it and whilst I understand that RNG is a massive factor for any MMO, I do feel like we could definitely lessen the RNG aspect on many things. A guaranteed pet after X xp or improved chance rates at level 99/120/200M just to give you a very quick and easy example.

Monster drops is the type of RNG that's easiest to deal with mentally. Some people get a divine sigil, some people get a spectral sigil. That's fine. There are other ways to make money. But if you sit down for hundreds of hours past 200M to get a pet or a Champion Scroll drop or anything else that is required for a specific goal you have that can't be obtained otherwise, you really start getting into a realm of mental masochism.

There is already an improved chance to get skill pets after 99, 120 and 200m...

Also Rng is what makes a good part of the game fun. If everything is just a mindless grind which is the same from start to finish, that would make a lot of activities less enjoyable.
Trimmed 04/12/15

13-Apr-2020 19:16:10

Spady
Aug Member 2013

Spady

Posts: 5,722 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kunst said :
Desupty RS said :
Well I can tell you that it's definitely not a healthy thing especially to those who are really deep into this game. Seeing people around you with pets at level 30 or people receiving Dye on their first couple of clues whilst you're dry for a hundred mil experience or done hundreds of clues, really makes you hate yourself. We tend to compare ourselves with people constantly, even at unconcious level. Social media is so self destructive for that same reason because you're constantly faced with images and videos of people living their best life.

I'd personally like to see less of it and whilst I understand that RNG is a massive factor for any MMO, I do feel like we could definitely lessen the RNG aspect on many things. A guaranteed pet after X xp or improved chance rates at level 99/120/200M just to give you a very quick and easy example.

Monster drops is the type of RNG that's easiest to deal with mentally. Some people get a divine sigil, some people get a spectral sigil. That's fine. There are other ways to make money. But if you sit down for hundreds of hours past 200M to get a pet or a Champion Scroll drop or anything else that is required for a specific goal you have that can't be obtained otherwise, you really start getting into a realm of mental masochism.

There is already an improved chance to get skill pets after 99, 120 and 200m...

Also Rng is what makes a good part of the game fun. If everything is just a mindless grind which is the same from start to finish, that would make a lot of activities less enjoyable.
Excellent points, Desupty.

Kunst, you say "fun," but my point is what if it is "addiction"? Like how people with tobacco, alcohol, pornography, etc. say their addictions are "fun"? You say the grind would be a lot less enjoyable, but people enjoyed the grind long before RS became so rng saturated.

13-Apr-2020 20:03:18

Kunst

Kunst

Posts: 1,701 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Spady said :
Excellent points, Desupty.

Kunst, you say "fun," but my point is what if it is "addiction"? Like how people with tobacco, alcohol, pornography, etc. say their addictions are "fun"? You say the grind would be a lot less enjoyable, but people enjoyed the grind long before RS became so rng saturated.

There isn't a clear line between fun and addiction though. Somethings get addicting cus it's fun.

That said, an unhealthy 'fun/addiction' for me would be something like dicing/staking where you have to invest more than just time to experience the rng. (gambling)

Now stuff like pets/drops i see as a healthy 'fun/addiction'.

notice how healthy/unhealthy can be also described as legal/illegal.

And a MMO developer will always want to make their game addicting for obvious reasons.

Now regarding the other original point of this thread, rng within archaeology, i have to agree somethings are really unnecessary, like the tomes rng and ordem of artefacts you get.

TLDR: some rng is good, gambling is bad, and addiction is a core part of the MMO industry.
Trimmed 04/12/15

13-Apr-2020 20:19:31

Spady
Aug Member 2013

Spady

Posts: 5,722 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yep, I agree with your assessment. Notice my original point was reaction to Arch. That requires gp, which can be gotten through irl money, so comparisons can be made to gambling. If I fund my rs addiction with my credit card, and my rs addiction is essentially gambling because it's rng based... if a = b and b = c, then a = c.

13-Apr-2020 21:24:04

Sal VJ
Dec Member 2023

Sal VJ

Posts: 21,325 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Spady said :
Is Jagex adding more rng because it's addictive? Is that why everything is becoming more rng-based? So you can get hooked on getting that next "win"?
Yes, basically.

You get more addictive attention to randomly spaced returns than to regular interval ones. This is also true for PvM, TT and whatever rng-based content there is. This is just how our psychology is shaped by evolution, if you want to get into that.
Never drop a valuable item.

Ikki blaka niður virðismikil ting.

15-Apr-2020 01:49:12

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