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Treasure Trails Q&A Answers!
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4 - What's with the composite bows?
Their drop rate was completely skewed due to irregularities in the drop tables making two of them a lot more common and less in demand than the third, and the willow was actually the most expensive of the three by quite a margin.
This was not what was intended for them so it was decided during balancing to try and rectify this by making them available on all three lower levels of trails.
Also, we removed the really useless items like normal bows altogether to increase the incidence of more desirable items, which in the end had the effect of making them more common. And with players doing more treasure trails after the update, they became even more common and crashed.
Balancing treasure trails is a difficult task at the best of times and especially with how the market is fluctuating, it's very difficult to predict which way things are going to go. If you remove the worst items to make the clue more valuable, then add the clue drop to some more monsters, you make the clues more common, so the good drops more common, and the reason they are good drops is because they are rare, so rare items become junk and nobody's happy.
So to all the people asking if we're going to make clue more common, or if we're going to prevent NPCs that drop level 4 from dropping level 3, the answer is that we're very unlikely to do that because it's going to upset and already fragile balancing.
5 - Why aren't Dark beast/abyssal demons/insert slayer monster here dropping any elite clues when metal dragons do?
Dark beasts and abyssal demons are pretty rare slayer creatures which are already "farmed" for another unique drop, be it darkbow or abyssal whip. If we make elite clues available on these monsters, you will have people who don't do bosses but have the slayer level that will just farm these for the clues, preventing people who have a task to do it. The reason strykewyrms drop the clues is that you have to be on the assignment to fight them, so players are less likely to camp the monsters just for the clue and preventing slayers from doing their tasks.
Potentially we could only let those beast drop a clue for player who have them as a task and I'll suggest it to Mod Mark, but no guarantees
6 - Why did you replace a readily available cheap gnome hat by a rare expensive splitbark helm?
This was part of a separate balancing project that was replacing shop-bought items which doesn't do much to help the economy, by player-made items. I wasn't involved in the details of that project so can't really comment. Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
deadly
busy...
Their drop rate was completely skewed due to irregularities in the drop tables making two of them a lot more common and less in demand than the third, and the willow was actually the most expensive of the three by quite a margin.
This was not what was intended for them so it was decided during balancing to try and rectify this by making them available on all three lower levels of trails.
Also, we removed the really useless items like normal bows altogether to increase the incidence of more desirable items, which in the end had the effect of making them more common. And with players doing more treasure trails after the update, they became even more common and crashed.
Balancing treasure trails is a difficult task at the best of times and especially with how the market is fluctuating, it's very difficult to predict which way things are going to go. If you remove the worst items to make the clue more valuable, then add the clue drop to some more monsters, you make the clues more common, so the good drops more common, and the reason they are good drops is because they are rare, so rare items become junk and nobody's happy.
So to all the people asking if we're going to make clue more common, or if we're going to prevent NPCs that drop level 4 from dropping level 3, the answer is that we're very unlikely to do that because it's going to upset and already fragile balancing.
5 - Why aren't Dark beast/abyssal demons/insert slayer monster here dropping any elite clues when metal dragons do?
Dark beasts and abyssal demons are pretty rare slayer creatures which are already "farmed" for another unique drop, be it darkbow or abyssal whip. If we make elite clues available on these monsters, you will have people who don't do bosses but have the slayer level that will just farm these for the clues, preventing people who have a task to do it. The reason strykewyrms drop the clues is that you have to be on the assignment to fight them, so players are less likely to camp the monsters just for the clue and preventing slayers from doing their tasks.
Potentially we could only let those beast drop a clue for player who have them as a task and I'll suggest it to Mod Mark, but no guarantees
6 - Why did you replace a readily available cheap gnome hat by a rare expensive splitbark helm?
This was part of a separate balancing project that was replacing shop-bought items which doesn't do much to help the economy, by player-made items. I wasn't involved in the details of that project so can't really comment. Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
28-Sep-2010 20:40:45
7 - How rare are elite clues compared to hard clues?
A fair bit rarer. It depends on the monster, but can go from twice as rare to 10+ times as rare.
8 - How about making some monsters only drop an elite clue?
There is currently one monster that only drops elite clues with a chance of 1 in 20. But you can only fight it once a week, so it may still be a while before you can get your hands on one.
9 - Clues through Lootshare/coinshare?
This is technically really complicated due to the way the lootshare/coinshare system works, in that it doesn't really let you share untradeable items. And before you ask, we're not making clue scrolls tradeable.
Also, it uses a certain technique to store information such as how many trails you have left to complete before the reward which makes it nigh impossible to plug into the lootshare system. We would need a complete rewrite of the core system which, although possible, would take a long time for very little benefit. The time might be better used writing more content. Sorry
10 - Why are all the new rewards like recolours of the old ones? Why aren't they awesome like the ones from dungeoneering?
This is a tricky one. To make pretty graphics, we need a lot of time, and most of our graphics time was taken by Dungeoneering, so we've had to make compromises. It was appealing to create new god versions of existing items and other recolours (like completing the heraldic sets) just because the time/item was so much less than for, say, a fox mask. I can pretty much guarantee that if every one of the 150 odd new items had been unique, you'd still be waiting for the update! Maybe in future times we'll have more graphics budget, but nothing is less certain! Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
deadly
busy...
A fair bit rarer. It depends on the monster, but can go from twice as rare to 10+ times as rare.
8 - How about making some monsters only drop an elite clue?
There is currently one monster that only drops elite clues with a chance of 1 in 20. But you can only fight it once a week, so it may still be a while before you can get your hands on one.
9 - Clues through Lootshare/coinshare?
This is technically really complicated due to the way the lootshare/coinshare system works, in that it doesn't really let you share untradeable items. And before you ask, we're not making clue scrolls tradeable.
Also, it uses a certain technique to store information such as how many trails you have left to complete before the reward which makes it nigh impossible to plug into the lootshare system. We would need a complete rewrite of the core system which, although possible, would take a long time for very little benefit. The time might be better used writing more content. Sorry
10 - Why are all the new rewards like recolours of the old ones? Why aren't they awesome like the ones from dungeoneering?
This is a tricky one. To make pretty graphics, we need a lot of time, and most of our graphics time was taken by Dungeoneering, so we've had to make compromises. It was appealing to create new god versions of existing items and other recolours (like completing the heraldic sets) just because the time/item was so much less than for, say, a fox mask. I can pretty much guarantee that if every one of the 150 odd new items had been unique, you'd still be waiting for the update! Maybe in future times we'll have more graphics budget, but nothing is less certain! Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
28-Sep-2010 20:59:51
11 - Can you make some rewards untradeable?
We tried that in the past with the firelighters, and it never really worked out. People who get the item and don't want it feel cheated because they cannot get money for it. If you die and lose it, you can't buy it back. And if you get more that one, you're left with one less bank space. So as for the prayer biscuits...
12 - Can you make the prayer biscuits tradeable and give more prayer?
The reason they are untradeable is so people just can't buy massive amounts, then be allowed to stay in some dangerous areas of the game for hours and hours while only needing 1 stack of food. Well. We do allow players to do that, they just need to have collected the biscuits by themselves first. It's a self-balancing mechanism. We want to make them useful but not so overpowered that they ruin the game. So sadly, no, and no, at the very least until the game's balance tells us otherwise.
I *think* I got the most burning questions out of the way. After getting distracted and reading all the other questions for recurring ones (hence the pause), I'll start replying to individual people. Please don't get offended if I don't chose you, there's just too many to pick from. My answering pattern will be like real treasure trails! Completely random!
Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
deadly
busy...
We tried that in the past with the firelighters, and it never really worked out. People who get the item and don't want it feel cheated because they cannot get money for it. If you die and lose it, you can't buy it back. And if you get more that one, you're left with one less bank space. So as for the prayer biscuits...
12 - Can you make the prayer biscuits tradeable and give more prayer?
The reason they are untradeable is so people just can't buy massive amounts, then be allowed to stay in some dangerous areas of the game for hours and hours while only needing 1 stack of food. Well. We do allow players to do that, they just need to have collected the biscuits by themselves first. It's a self-balancing mechanism. We want to make them useful but not so overpowered that they ruin the game. So sadly, no, and no, at the very least until the game's balance tells us otherwise.
I *think* I got the most burning questions out of the way. After getting distracted and reading all the other questions for recurring ones (hence the pause), I'll start replying to individual people. Please don't get offended if I don't chose you, there's just too many to pick from. My answering pattern will be like real treasure trails! Completely random!
Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
28-Sep-2010 21:28:35
@Lizafer, Page 19
1. Can you confirm that the final number on our banner carriers banner is going to be XXX? Looking at the space on the walls behind the thrones under the champions guild, this seems to be likely.
That sounds about right doesn't it? I was thinking we could have a champion of champion of champions as a final conclusion, and that beating them would unlock a special banner that's better than a number or a head. This is just an idea though, no hard plans yet.
2. When are you intending to release more champion scrolls?
If only I knew. I am quite keen to finish this content though as I really enjoyed trying to come up with interesting boss mechanics and I really like the imp, and his banners, too.
3. Is it already decided what monsters will be dropping future scrolls, or will this be decided later on?
I have a shortlist I came up with when doing the last batch. Which ones get picked depends a fair bit on Mod Mark's mood.
4. Can you give us any hints as to what monsters may be dropping champion scrolls in the next batches?
That would be telling. Besides, if I tell you, how much do you bet Mod Mark will pick different ones just because
5. Do you know how many people have defeated all 15 champions so far, and is that something your willing to share?
I would be curious to know, too.
6. There is currently a list of players who have obtained the XV banner maintained by a player (thanks Ghanburi ) on a fansite, but it would be great if the amount of champions defeated was shown in the hiscores. Do you think this will ever happen? Could you make this happen?
I'd have to look into it. Maybe I can get it tagged onto the next batch when there's a next batch. Assuming I get to do a next batch?
Thanks in advance.
You're welcome!
Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
deadly
busy...
1. Can you confirm that the final number on our banner carriers banner is going to be XXX? Looking at the space on the walls behind the thrones under the champions guild, this seems to be likely.
That sounds about right doesn't it? I was thinking we could have a champion of champion of champions as a final conclusion, and that beating them would unlock a special banner that's better than a number or a head. This is just an idea though, no hard plans yet.
2. When are you intending to release more champion scrolls?
If only I knew. I am quite keen to finish this content though as I really enjoyed trying to come up with interesting boss mechanics and I really like the imp, and his banners, too.
3. Is it already decided what monsters will be dropping future scrolls, or will this be decided later on?
I have a shortlist I came up with when doing the last batch. Which ones get picked depends a fair bit on Mod Mark's mood.
4. Can you give us any hints as to what monsters may be dropping champion scrolls in the next batches?
That would be telling. Besides, if I tell you, how much do you bet Mod Mark will pick different ones just because
5. Do you know how many people have defeated all 15 champions so far, and is that something your willing to share?
I would be curious to know, too.
6. There is currently a list of players who have obtained the XV banner maintained by a player (thanks Ghanburi ) on a fansite, but it would be great if the amount of champions defeated was shown in the hiscores. Do you think this will ever happen? Could you make this happen?
I'd have to look into it. Maybe I can get it tagged onto the next batch when there's a next batch. Assuming I get to do a next batch?
Thanks in advance.
You're welcome!
Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
28-Sep-2010 21:40:33
@Vader Jacob Page 5
1) Why are the bonuses for the new Prayer books so low? They are barely different when compared to the Guthix book, yet much more expensive. Any chance of improving these? (Like, 5% magic damage for Ancient, +5 or +6 Strength for Bandos...)
We had a good discussion during balancing concerning what the stats of these books should be. I wanted them to have +8 across the attack style of the god they related to, but because they have targeted attack and corresponding defence, it was decided that +8 was too much and it was reduced to +6. Some attack bonuses were proposed on a few items like the cat staff, but discarded during balancing because inconsistent way of handling bonuses (via stats, via hidden boosts etc) just make balancing a living nightmare. It's the kind of things you don't want to risk getting too wrong, so I leave the final decision in the hands of our balancer, and in the end I still think those prayer books have something going for them.
2) The Saradomin armour and Armadyl armour look extremely similar (except the platebody). Any chance of making the difference more noticable?
Possibly not without upsetting quite a lot of people :/ What sort of difference would you suggest?
3) In addition to Pepper Bif*'s post on page 1, Royal implings would be a good candidate for level 4 clues, perhaps Dragon/Zombie implings too (but only the ones you caught yourself, perhaps?).
We were keen on making Elite trails the trails you get from fighting boss monsters. By extension it became tough monsters as well as boss monsters, but there is an emphasis with combat. One of the problems with treasure trails is that they drop in addition to an existing drop, but don't drop if you already hold one. Implings only drop one thing really. Adding it to any impling would mean you'd have a chance of not getting anything if you already have a clue. and if you give an alternate drop, then if it already exists in the drop table, it will be more common, and if it doesn't, it will be rarer, but it involve changing an existing drop rate which just involves more balancing. It's never that simple sadly... And I'd have to do the whole summoning charm trick all over again, too, because they're untradeable.
4) Are the expensive rewards from level 4 clues more common than level 3 clues? All of the items obtained from level 4 clues are cheaper than level 3 clue rewards (except the Druidic Top in some cases), which is pretty strange imo.
They are slightly more common I believe, just on the basis the clues themselves are rarer in the first place. But by default it still very close to the drop rates of the hard clues - Took me long enough to make sure that was the case.
5) General question about Prayer books, why does it take special "attack" energy to preach?
Good question, I wish I knew that one but it was already like that when I started working on the project. I didn't see why I should make it inconsistent and have it any different for the new ones.
6) Another question about Prayer books, if you chose the wrong book at Jossik, you first have to fill the book before you can receive another one. This is quite a pain, especially if you accidentally choose a more expensive book. Perhaps the dagannoths below the lighthouse could drop empty books?
You can only have one book at any one time. I'm not familiar with the reasoning behind it, but I can foresee the nightmare if I provide extra drops. I had to write quite an interesting bit of code to handle giving back all the possible combinations of completed and uncompleted books that you've lost, as well as allowing you to buy one of the ones you haven't started.
7) Don't know if I can ask but, could you tell us minor stuff about the Ritual of the Mahjarrat quest? (MOTM5)
You can ask, but I'm not going to tell you. If only because I don't have the faintest idea and I don't really want to know because I hate spoilers
I need to do the quests that come before it, first.
Thank you for taking your time to answer this.
You're welcome! Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
deadly
busy...
1) Why are the bonuses for the new Prayer books so low? They are barely different when compared to the Guthix book, yet much more expensive. Any chance of improving these? (Like, 5% magic damage for Ancient, +5 or +6 Strength for Bandos...)
We had a good discussion during balancing concerning what the stats of these books should be. I wanted them to have +8 across the attack style of the god they related to, but because they have targeted attack and corresponding defence, it was decided that +8 was too much and it was reduced to +6. Some attack bonuses were proposed on a few items like the cat staff, but discarded during balancing because inconsistent way of handling bonuses (via stats, via hidden boosts etc) just make balancing a living nightmare. It's the kind of things you don't want to risk getting too wrong, so I leave the final decision in the hands of our balancer, and in the end I still think those prayer books have something going for them.
2) The Saradomin armour and Armadyl armour look extremely similar (except the platebody). Any chance of making the difference more noticable?
Possibly not without upsetting quite a lot of people :/ What sort of difference would you suggest?
3) In addition to Pepper Bif*'s post on page 1, Royal implings would be a good candidate for level 4 clues, perhaps Dragon/Zombie implings too (but only the ones you caught yourself, perhaps?).
We were keen on making Elite trails the trails you get from fighting boss monsters. By extension it became tough monsters as well as boss monsters, but there is an emphasis with combat. One of the problems with treasure trails is that they drop in addition to an existing drop, but don't drop if you already hold one. Implings only drop one thing really. Adding it to any impling would mean you'd have a chance of not getting anything if you already have a clue. and if you give an alternate drop, then if it already exists in the drop table, it will be more common, and if it doesn't, it will be rarer, but it involve changing an existing drop rate which just involves more balancing. It's never that simple sadly... And I'd have to do the whole summoning charm trick all over again, too, because they're untradeable.
4) Are the expensive rewards from level 4 clues more common than level 3 clues? All of the items obtained from level 4 clues are cheaper than level 3 clue rewards (except the Druidic Top in some cases), which is pretty strange imo.
They are slightly more common I believe, just on the basis the clues themselves are rarer in the first place. But by default it still very close to the drop rates of the hard clues - Took me long enough to make sure that was the case.
5) General question about Prayer books, why does it take special "attack" energy to preach?
Good question, I wish I knew that one but it was already like that when I started working on the project. I didn't see why I should make it inconsistent and have it any different for the new ones.
6) Another question about Prayer books, if you chose the wrong book at Jossik, you first have to fill the book before you can receive another one. This is quite a pain, especially if you accidentally choose a more expensive book. Perhaps the dagannoths below the lighthouse could drop empty books?
You can only have one book at any one time. I'm not familiar with the reasoning behind it, but I can foresee the nightmare if I provide extra drops. I had to write quite an interesting bit of code to handle giving back all the possible combinations of completed and uncompleted books that you've lost, as well as allowing you to buy one of the ones you haven't started.
7) Don't know if I can ask but, could you tell us minor stuff about the Ritual of the Mahjarrat quest? (MOTM5)
You can ask, but I'm not going to tell you. If only because I don't have the faintest idea and I don't really want to know because I hate spoilers
I need to do the quests that come before it, first.
Thank you for taking your time to answer this.
You're welcome! Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
28-Sep-2010 22:06:38
@XpowergamerX page 26
1)Will cow masks ever be a TT reward?
This is interesting. There is a cow outfit that was a reward of a never released AME - Never released for a reason, it was judged too "gruesome". We'd need to know if it's going to be reworked to make it releasable or if we can just use the rewards for something else...
2)Are you going to make some kwl reward that you couldn't make before z-buff?
When Dungeoneering is complete? To be honest I don't know. I should ask someone in graphics, but they've all long gone home tonight.
3)Will there be cryptogram puzzles?
We're trying to pick clues which are difficult for players to use fan sites for. Although I can see one way to make cryptograms random, at the end of the day they would only point to so many coordinates, and players would be able to identify the sentence by the spacing of words/letters without having to translate the cipher themselves. And translation will hate us.
4)In the future,would there be a slight chance of getting a *insert mod name* doll as a reward? hee hee
And have you do all matters of voodoo stuff on us? How about no?
5)Why is it impossible to get a clue scroll from killing guards? :\
I'm pretty sure it isn't. Try the right guards and get lucky?
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...
Thanks in advance.
You're welcome! Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
deadly
busy...
1)Will cow masks ever be a TT reward?
This is interesting. There is a cow outfit that was a reward of a never released AME - Never released for a reason, it was judged too "gruesome". We'd need to know if it's going to be reworked to make it releasable or if we can just use the rewards for something else...
2)Are you going to make some kwl reward that you couldn't make before z-buff?
When Dungeoneering is complete? To be honest I don't know. I should ask someone in graphics, but they've all long gone home tonight.
3)Will there be cryptogram puzzles?
We're trying to pick clues which are difficult for players to use fan sites for. Although I can see one way to make cryptograms random, at the end of the day they would only point to so many coordinates, and players would be able to identify the sentence by the spacing of words/letters without having to translate the cipher themselves. And translation will hate us.
4)In the future,would there be a slight chance of getting a *insert mod name* doll as a reward? hee hee
And have you do all matters of voodoo stuff on us? How about no?
5)Why is it impossible to get a clue scroll from killing guards? :\
I'm pretty sure it isn't. Try the right guards and get lucky?
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...
Thanks in advance.
You're welcome! Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
28-Sep-2010 22:32:50
@Farmerbros page 4
1) How have you judged the success of the new elite clues both from the puzzles and the rewards aka how they've changed the market or the way people play?
I've looked at the player response on the forums and seen the items move in the grand exchange. They certainly show that there's a keen interest in the trails, so I'm pretty happy. I know it can't all be positive but with a game as wide-reaching as RuneScape, you pretty much can't release anything without annoying some people. Unless it's a lily of the valley maybe...
2) With the nice introduction of sara,zammy and guthix god bows is there plans to add in the other 3 bows (zaros,bandos and armadyl) or will they be making an apperance in future "Super elite clues"?
I haven't thought that far, although I probably wouldn't make an ancient or bandos bow. Not making any plans on that one though, this would be a different project altogether
1) What is your though on clans and communities using 5-man teams designed to lose on purpose to help aid thier other players on getting stealing creation points faster (good/bad/meh)
Meh
I like the fact that the game creates communities. I like how non-combat stealing creation is a challenge in itself, as communities gather and organise themselves to flee from aggressive players, I think this is in the spirit of the wilderness it was based on. If some people decide to donate their time to allow other players to get points faster, it's not ideal but we can't really prevent it from happening either, so you know... Meh.
2)Is there any plans for new stealing creation items/reward maybe to help in other skills?
Not as far as I know.
just to add a foot note, TYVM for SC helped me like so many others on skills like smithing crafting and construction
You're welcome
Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
deadly
busy...
1) How have you judged the success of the new elite clues both from the puzzles and the rewards aka how they've changed the market or the way people play?
I've looked at the player response on the forums and seen the items move in the grand exchange. They certainly show that there's a keen interest in the trails, so I'm pretty happy. I know it can't all be positive but with a game as wide-reaching as RuneScape, you pretty much can't release anything without annoying some people. Unless it's a lily of the valley maybe...
2) With the nice introduction of sara,zammy and guthix god bows is there plans to add in the other 3 bows (zaros,bandos and armadyl) or will they be making an apperance in future "Super elite clues"?
I haven't thought that far, although I probably wouldn't make an ancient or bandos bow. Not making any plans on that one though, this would be a different project altogether
1) What is your though on clans and communities using 5-man teams designed to lose on purpose to help aid thier other players on getting stealing creation points faster (good/bad/meh)
Meh
I like the fact that the game creates communities. I like how non-combat stealing creation is a challenge in itself, as communities gather and organise themselves to flee from aggressive players, I think this is in the spirit of the wilderness it was based on. If some people decide to donate their time to allow other players to get points faster, it's not ideal but we can't really prevent it from happening either, so you know... Meh.
2)Is there any plans for new stealing creation items/reward maybe to help in other skills?
Not as far as I know.
just to add a foot note, TYVM for SC helped me like so many others on skills like smithing crafting and construction
You're welcome
Runescape Developer and Ninja. I'm quiet because I'm
28-Sep-2010 22:49:23
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