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Philosophy: free will?

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Kopaka
Dec Member 2023

Kopaka

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Mr Brushie said :
You started this topic about free will, and now you're talking about brain physics.
No need to get hostile. This is a casual discussion about how the world works.

How our bodies function has everything to do with things like free will.

In subjects like these, it's quite important to be using words to mean the same things, so possibly the misunderstanding is due to differing definitions of free will.

The crux of the concept is the 'ability to do otherwise'. This implies that at any given moment, the only thing which causes A to happen and not B is our 'free will'.

I think most people would not consider it very free if they were told that their choice to do A and not B was the precise calculation of the neurons in their brain and that they actually couldn't possibly have done B. A was the only choice all along.

Possibly you consider the whole 'neurons in the brain' and whatnot to be part of 'me'. I'm not trying to say that we are separate from our physical existence, but rather to point out that there is a notion of 'will' or 'mind' which generally is not considered to be the mechanical operating of our internal biological computer.

If you think that brain = mind and neurons firing = thinking/will/choice, then I can certainly see why this line of reasoning would not make sense to you.

Regardless, though, the point is to ponder, are we actually 'choosing' between equally available options, or has the choice - as it were - already been made before it was even presented to us?

Did Jimmy take the cookie because he decided it was worth it, or did his internal calculus decide it was worth it and he genuinely couldn't have decided anything else?

This subject does bear some mild metaphysical implications, but it's mostly interesting from a morality standpoint, since we normally think that people 'decided' to do X, but if we instead thought that they had no option given their situation, might view things differently.

13-Sep-2021 03:57:28

Mr Brushie

Mr Brushie

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You confused confusion with hostility. :|

I gave up on the topic because I am unable to stay with you on the things you're saying.

To me, it's pretty simple. As living beings, we have free will to choose to do (or not do) anything we want that is within our means of doing (or not doing). I don't believe there's some convoluted micro-science behind every single choice nor do I believe that there's some invisible greater being secretly guiding me.

Maybe I'm wrong. Frankly, if I am, I don't care. That's how I perceive things to be, and that's that.

13-Sep-2021 04:24:52

XSlay4DeathX
Mar Member 2007

XSlay4DeathX

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I'm a master of choices given my spiritual gifts, some things have a choice, other things are fated to you. Or an event happens that changes your point of view and how you handle it can change you, even make a great person, a bad one. (like the 80 year old down the road that is rude to you, what made him start that?)

I knew of all covid 19 failures before they happened....i'll leave it there to not derail, already got 2 bans on that topic lol.

I seen a snake and a snapping turtle head in the clouds on the way to school, 2 weeks later i skipped school and was randomly assigned 'snapping turtles', 6 months later i found a baby alligator snapping turtle dried up in my drive way so i place it into a bug tank i had. I even purchased a 50 gal tank very cheap like i was designed to own it. I also got a snake as a gift from my sister.

If you have bad luck like me and suffer from past life influence you can decode some life choices caused my death in my next one.....I was a judge in london england, helped fund the ships in which later ended up killing me when i was a native in canada/USA. But i'v lived on this earth 7+ times.

Regarding how the world works, it wants us to live but also to die, reason thier is things very close to the same, one deadly, one harmless/safe (snakes,spiders, plants) etc

Currently the earth is in a correction mode, reason why so much bad is happening to force change and to unhide those who made poor choices. <---it comes back to bite you those bad decisions based on your motives.

^And they can follow you to your next life.....<---but a lot it seems don't believe in people like me or reincarnation.

I can decode most outcomes by comparing values to any problem, covid vs unknown deadly snake, would you risk it without playing it safe? World really pissed me off that day.....everything backfired after that decision as i knew it would for not favour lives over $$$ first.... :(

World works in odd ways to repair itself. All about choices :P

13-Sep-2021 06:44:34

XSlay4DeathX
Mar Member 2007

XSlay4DeathX

Posts: 2,634 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
regarding free will, it's very tough....

My most dangerous motives is the worlds survival, all conflicts atm i can stop very easy but would the world listen to me? probably not.....What if the aftermath fixes what i wanted fixed? maybe it's best i let it happen..... :|

choices are very difficult, specially when you could have saved millions of lives but i thought people were smarter to avoid things and i was hoping i was wrong. I wasn't....

It's like a stack of dominos in my hands, i know when they will tip and which way in most cases but not everything can be seen.

I see this world from a whole different view point, i look years ahead and follow it backwards like cheating on a maze while knowing the motives and values to find issues.

food shortages from X hurricane because X farms were turned into houses etc, prevention is key, i rather have a surplus than a deficit. could even send that surplus to places that need it....nvm forgot people don't truly care for others anymore sadly.

choices to me are like doorways. ;)

13-Sep-2021 07:33:03

Averia Light

Averia Light

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Mr Brushie said :
Kopaka said :
You claim they are different but on what basis can you make such a claim? It sounds about as valid as saying a boulder rolling down a hill isn't the same as a tree falling over in a forest.


Well, that's because a boulder rolling down a hill isn't, in fact, the same as a tree falling over in a forest. The only commonalities in play regarding those two scenarios is gravity.

But I do have to admit defeat on the grounds that I literally have no idea what the hell you're even on about. You started this topic about free will, and now you're talking about brain physics.

I mean, what the f


Some could say it went from free will to gravity in 9.8m/s^2.

But yeah I'm pretty confused by this topic as well. I generally believe that we can choose whatever we want, but the choices we make are obviously influenced by the society we live in, the life we have lived, etc...
And I swear I'm not going to let her know all the pain I have known

14-Sep-2021 03:54:24

Kopaka
Dec Member 2023

Kopaka

Posts: 3,578 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kiwi Magic said :
In addiction there is no such thing as free will.

Addicts have no control over their lives or their behavior.
This is interesting. What does 'control' mean, in this context?

When an alcoholic drinks a beer, surely this is different from (anyone) being force-fed a beer?

But how is it different?

I think this strikes at the difference inside the mind between 'us' and 'our brain' which I've tried to explain.

The alcoholic is being told by a part of their brain which -most- do not consider 'me' that they should have a drink. It is rather the 'me' part which might try to resist such an 'urge'.

One could say that whichever part of 'me' has taken over when I'm the 'victim' of an addiction is the more 'emotional', 'primal', 'hedonistic' part, as opposed to our more logical and moral part.

Does the emotional, primal, hedonistic part of our brain make choices? Or is it simply compelled to do A, B and C due to very simple cost-benefit analysis? I would suggest the latter is likely the case. It is our rational mind which we 'believe' to be capable of choosing X or Y, though I also am trying to point out that this is not so obviously true as it seems.



So what do you think of non-addicts, kiwi? No doubt you see them differently, more able to 'choose', but how so? Is it possible that we are simple more easily able to predict the 'choices' of an addict, but non-addicts are harder to predict? Does this necessarily mean that they do indeed 'choose' in a more meaningful way than the addict does?

14-Sep-2021 07:07:09

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