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Nosword

Nosword

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minors are covered under their parents, if the parents have insurance. with no insurance you just are expected to pay several thousand dollars. they will usually treat you but you will have to pay it off. lots of people go into massive debt because of hospital costs, and many people file bankruptcy because of medical bills. and i have heard several times were people are just denied treatment

while i have heard several stories of people being denied to be seen while in an ER, i have no sources and dont know how often that happens. usually if its life threatening theyll treat you
Old School

05-Mar-2017 12:24:08

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

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Hmmm.

So - what if you are an adult but have no income?
Like maybe very old, or someone with a condition such as mental illness or severe physical disability. Or homeless and unemployed.

No point in treating those categories and demanding they pay it back since clearly they are unable to, and never will be able to (probably)?

Do they just get left to die, or is there some sort of safety net for them, like charitable organisations?

This is not a politically-loaded question, btw. It's just that coming from a country which, for my entire life and hopefully the foreseeable future, anyone who is ill gets treatment free of charge, your system is a mystery to me both in fact and in terms of understanding the rationale.
Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

05-Mar-2017 12:54:44

Nosword

Nosword

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think they get treated as a dependent and their family has to cover the costs. idk

i just finished looking for myself into health insurance. i missed the enrollment period for 2017 so i can only get short term insurance. i will probably get this but it wont count towards the minimal essential insurance required by the affordable care act. tho i did find some plans that looked decent that i could afford. and i guess anything is better than nothing.

i will possibly get fined $695 for not being able to afford health insurance last year when i file my taxes
Old School

05-Mar-2017 14:59:38 - Last edited on 05-Mar-2017 15:06:14 by Nosword

Nosword

Nosword

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since trump signed an executive order to get rid of the affordable care act there is a chance i will not get fined, since the IRS may not enforce that rule anymore

this would be great cuz i really dont want to get fined for being poor

while this isnt a political post i am worried itll still get hidden. this is about health, not politics. it isnt meant to talk about ideals or whatever, jst something that happened recently that is going to have a large impact on me
Old School

05-Mar-2017 15:06:31 - Last edited on 05-Mar-2017 15:10:41 by Nosword

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

Posts: 24,106 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"i will possibly get fined $695 for not being able to afford health insurance last year when i file my taxes"


What? You get FINED for not being able to afford insurance !!??

That's just .... bonkers.

If a person can't afford health insurance, how the hell are they supposed to find the money for a fine for not having insurance?

crazy crazy crazy
Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

05-Mar-2017 15:14:01

Icy Spring

Icy Spring

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There's Medicaid, which is a program that provides health coverage for the impoverished: children with low-income parents, the elderly, people who make up to 133% of the poverty line (which is practically nothing, the 133% number also depends upon whether the state's governor accepted Obamacare's expanded Medicaid subsidies).

Then there's Medicare, which is a payroll tax-funded health insurance program for people 65 and older and the disabled. A lot of people who make too much to qualify for Medicaid and don't receive insurance subsidies basically have to hope they don't get sick until 65.

The unemployed probably qualify for subsidies on the Obamacare insurance exchanges but I'm not sure. May qualify for Medicaid, not sure what the deal is.

Obamacare mandated purchasing insurance, but for many it's cheaper to pay the penalty than buy high-deductible insurance that won't pay out without thousands in out of pocket costs. And prohibitive costs lead people to defer treatment of progressive conditions (in really poor areas it is not uncommon to see people with untreated diabetic leg sores) until their shit is really fucked, at which point they seek treatment in hospital emergency rooms, which are legally obligated to provide care. By then the festering leg's gotta be amputated, plus a multi-day stay while they treat the blood infection, oh, and that will be $15,000 please. When the patient inevitably can't cough up taxpayers wind up subsidizing the bill.

05-Mar-2017 15:17:00

Nosword

Nosword

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yea the decision i made was to pay off my student loan instead of pay health insurance. i dont know if that was the right decision, but at least now i have paid of school.

if i had stayed on my plan i would have had to pay over $3000 for insurance for that year. which is more than the $700 fine. i wouldnt have been able to pay off my loans. since the interest rates on them were so high i couldnt actually make any progress on them while also paying for health

not having health insurance tho for me is really bad because im an idiot and usually end up in the ER at least once a year. plus i need to probably talk to people and get some pills to make my head work correctly

i also possibly made the mistake of not signing up through the insurance my work provides. that was because it didnt cover mental health or ER visits. and i dont exactly plan on staying with this job much longer

not getting something during the enrollment period this year was just really dumb and irresponsible of me. i didnt know there was a limited enrollment period and im very unsure of what to do now. especially with the rules being changed around. dont even know who i should talk to
Old School

05-Mar-2017 15:44:17 - Last edited on 05-Mar-2017 15:46:59 by Nosword

FiFi LaFeles

FiFi LaFeles

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It sounds very complicated and horribly, horribly expensive.

Here, if you earn enough money to pay income tax, then some of that is designated for "National Insurance". That means you get free healthcare and Benefits if you fall out of work.

If you don't work, you get all that anyway because it comes out of what's been collected from the workers and money the Government provides.

You can pay for private healthcare if you want to and that usually means you get a Hospital appointment with a Consultant quicker, maybe a private Hospital (although not always) but in any case if you are working you still have to pay something towards National Insurance anyway. There's no opting out.

I suppose that sounds a bit quaint, possibly even communist, but ... it works more or less. It makes sense for any well-off country (like yours and mine) to ensure it's citizens are healthy.

It's costing the Government here far too much currently (mainly due to poor management) and there's rumblings of selling off healthcare to private companies. In which case I assume we'd end up with a system similar to yours. I hope that never happens.
Le Chat Guerrier

Bwian's Towel & Grief Shop

05-Mar-2017 16:08:30

Icy Spring

Icy Spring

Posts: 3,248 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
A single-payer national healthcare system is really the only viable option. I suspect things will change for the worse once the Republican replacement of the Affordable Care Act is unveiled. It's been 6 years and they have yet to produce a plan, mainly because the ACA was a compromise to begin with and many of its popular provisions will become unsustainable if key parts of the law are repealed. No individual mandate? Then state healthcare insurance exchanges will comprise only the high-risk and previously uninsurable, the system will collapse, and vulnerable populations will be thrown back to the wolves with no safety net. And so on...

Our biggest social insurance programs also face budget shortfalls for several reasons, the main contributors being a cap on taxed income (income over $127,200 is not subject to the taxes that finance these programs) and Congress dipping into the trust funds since the '80s. These are deferred annuity programs where payroll taxes finance the current generation of retirees, only some of the money has been siphoned off for other purposes and not repaid, leaving a huge unfunded obligation. The solution, of course, according to certain persons is not to raise revenue through removal of the income cap but instead slash benefits and institute tax-deductible vouchers for private insurance in lieu of universal government-administered coverage for seniors.

05-Mar-2017 17:10:18 - Last edited on 05-Mar-2017 21:10:10 by Icy Spring

Bernadette
Dec Member 2021

Bernadette

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All that sounds horribly complicated and very unfair on people who, for whatever reason, have limited income.

Even though our NHS is terribly cash strapped, we do know we will eventually be seen by the local Doctors and Hospitals. One drawback is that some very expensive treatments for some illnesses are not made available by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE), who have the unenviable task of judging the cost-effectiveness of treatments v long-term outcomes.

Our National Insurance covers the Health Service plus some State Benefits such as our State Pension and Maternity Benefits. Everyone pays into it when they earn over £155 pw. The amount paid varies depending on the employment type, but I think it is about 12% for an average worker plus their employer pays another 13%. I am not sure if there is still an upper earnings threshold. Self employed pay different rates. We are still entitled to Health Services even if we are not working or are paid too little to reach the NI threshold.

For prescription drugs we pay a set amount per item (£8.40) but there is no charge for under 18s (full time education), over 60s, in pregnancy (plus a year after) plus people on various unemployment or low pay benefits. For those who need regular medication there are schemes where they can pay less.

Unfortunately, as Fifi says, the NHS is in a financial crisis with lots of cuts. We all love our NHS and I think the implied promise of extra funding to the NHS swayed some voters recently, for good or ill.

I suppose the main aspect of our NHS is that we all, theoretically, get the same treatment - regardless of income or status.
One man's Truth is another man's Lie

05-Mar-2017 18:13:44 - Last edited on 05-Mar-2017 21:03:58 by Bernadette

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