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(GameJam) New Player Guild

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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Deltaslug said :
either way Dilbert, would be nice to see more of the design document behind the idea

I don't know if there is any design document now, as unlike all the other GameJam projects, they have shown us absolutely no description on the "New Player Guild".

I think at this point, "New Player Guild" is an abstract concept. The Jmods may have a lot of things in their mind, but they aren't the cookie cutter hero NPC, shop NPC, recharge prayer, and garbage mobs kind of old content recycling we have seen 15 or more years ago in Champion or Legend Guilds.

I can see City of Um being the new foundations of such "New Player Guild" initiative, similar to but more innovative and immersive than Davendale and Ashdale, of course focused on the Necromancy and far more new player friendly EOC and skilling tutorials.

We may think in the direction of Davendale being focused on introducing new players to Mobile controls, "New Player Guild" is focused on introducing new players to all kind of new and innovative content in 2023 RS3, such as, of course Necromancy and the player and community built and owned content like Fort Forinthry and City of Um.

06-Jul-2023 16:31:34 - Last edited on 06-Jul-2023 16:39:32 by Dilbert2001

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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I would respectfully disagree with using Um as a beginner training area overall.

Mostly because we'd probably need to make some progress thru the Necromancy Tutorial to get there.

Secondly, there aren't many NPCs present when we start there. So you'd have ot explain why a group of adventurer trainers would have a large well set up training area in a location that is quasi-transitory for souls and those souls usually don't have much recollection of their past.
So it's not the best location from a narrative perspective to start off.

So unless Jagex was planning to have players literally start off in Um, that's probably a no-go.

Keep in mind, you also have the tutorial for Archaeology, yet we aren't starting off the game near the Digsite.

I can see the New Adventurer Guild having teleport options to the tutorials ...... afterall ... tutorial island had tutors for the skills. It would make sense for the adventurers guild to send you to those tutors for those particular skills.

That's the one good thing about Invention and Archaeology, you actually got a bit of an in depth of "this is how you do it" and then you just repeat N to the infinite number of times until you're done.
True, combat academy whiffed at that goal, but at least they tried.
Divination kinda tries, but it is closer to a proper tutorial than what most of the other skills get on their own.

Even then, you kinda don't want to have another Ashdale tutorial problem ....

08-Jul-2023 03:44:49 - Last edited on 08-Jul-2023 03:48:25 by Deltaslug

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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I don't mean to bash the mods that were on this project, especially because I personally am in love with the premise that establishing the importance of guilds (even if players don't necessarily see them that way right now) in the early stretches of the games lore.

... but this GameJam project and Mod Dragon's redesign of what I assume were....leather and basic Wizards Tower/Dark Wizard equipment were easily the most "unfinished" works of last week, and I was really confused as to why those projects were allowed to be given images (at least for the New Players' Guild - Mod Dragon is a graphics person, you kinda need to see their work in some capacity.) In such early stages, I would have preferred Jagex told what the mods were envisioning and shared a little in text format, with an indication that there was still much work to be done, than be shown something that wasn't even close to being potentially greenlit.

Taking the information we do have on its face - it's an early game quest, and with a similar kind of reward to Dragon Slayer, without forcing the player to work up to any necessary requirements.

The most tangible reward is the Guild itself, and it doesn't have any clarity whatsoever as to what it might entail.

This is where my brain keeps running to it being a part of something bigger - because an early game quest with rewards that aren't very tangible - even for the new players they are designed for - would only make sense if there were potentially some other rationale for such a Guild in the first place.

... like building onto the idea that the questing guilds are natural stepping stones, and hinting to newer players that in the early stages of your account, it helps to strive to be a part of those later guilds before moving on to more advanced lore content because otherwise you are likely playing the story well beyond chronological order.

In terms of GameJam projects, this one caught my eye. I wish there was ... more.
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08-Jul-2023 07:13:05

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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So, lets talk tutorials.

Firstly, the fact that we have many editions of tutorials in the past proves that the game changes often enough that Jagex feels it needs to rethink how to introduce new players to the whole game, which would make things like reworking them or the Path system a very tangible (and somewhat possible, again given the track record) direction Jagex could take.

I think a New Players' Guild quest would be a way more engaging "quest" tutorial than talking to the Quest guy on Tutorial Island, or simply providing small combat skirmishes or puzzles in the early throes of an account's life. It also, again tethers the tutorial to the actual game world, and some of the better tutorial experiences melt into the actual game itself, rather than compartmentalize itself as a completely different experience altogether.

I also concur with Deltaslug in that a better use of these portals would be to move players to more specific tutorial instances in the game, which come with their own tangible rewards for doing so.

> Let's start with Archaeology, moving from the first questing guild to the most engaged with skilling guild. It also is not so far from the Varrock lodestone (which should fit the ...currently suggested purpose of those portals.)

> Death's Office is another good location, because it will technically be the start of the player's Necromancy journey as Death blocks Um's entrance (making it another tutorial experience), as well as introduces the player to Death, the action, and what players should do to reclaim their lost items should it happen. The hourglass in Death's Office also leads to War's Retreat, as well as Draynor Village's lodestone.

> Edgeville's got the NPC Vala, who could describe PvP, and the Wilderness mechanics, to the player.

> Lumbridge and Burthorpe should just be a natural location as there's several helpful npc's there.

> The Invention Guild, while a distant goal, is close to Falador.
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08-Jul-2023 07:26:39 - Last edited on 08-Jul-2023 07:28:01 by H 1 L D A

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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So, why am I simply relabeling all of those teleport locations to extended tutorial instances rather than the locales themselves?

.... because I think this update would fit really nicely in sort of establishing the entire Free area of the game in totality as an area where newer players can learn things. It makes for a pretty healthy game experience for a player that may be wanting to fully experience what RuneScape has to offer before buying in on membership or trying to figure out how to somehow become a millionaire in a restricted area that is repurposed to appeal to new players everywhere you turn.

... or perhaps they stick it out in F2P and from all of that time spent acquiring skilling and questing information and even interesting knowledge such as PvP mechanics (and ideally in conjunction with a revamped Combat Academy that integrates actually helpful lessons on PvM like appropriate interactions between abilities and optimal action bars at the very least, to things like animation cancelling and SwitchScape in more robust form), they meet friends, and those friends introduce them to the kinds of communities that have been the backbone of RuneScape's player experience for the better part of nearly three decades.

One may argue that F2P, while expansive, doesn't do a great job of conveying direction for players. Eventually, those players run into a closed gate, or try to level a member's skill and the game prevents them, without really providing much direction within the boundary. This guild is the kind of content, with help from other facets, that could refine the F2P experience, while better conveying that it isn't the full experience, by reinforcing the messaging around the content with an aire of "beginner-to-intermediate friendliness" that subtly pushes the player to try membership as they become more skilled.

If it's not a rework of the tutorial or path system, perhaps its a part of a broader effort to change how we think of early RuneScape? Idk.
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08-Jul-2023 07:41:27

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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"I would respectfully disagree with using Um as a beginner training area overall."


Um won't be a "beginner training area overall". As I mentioned, it will be just a tutorial place, perhaps combat and questing oriented. As I mentioned, think in the direction of Davendale. It is definitely not an overall training area for beginner. It serves its purpose as a Mobile tutorial place for new players rather.

Even for Necromancy alone, new players will be killing low level mobs all over Gielinor, just that they learn the rope in Um like Mobile players learn their in Davendale and other new players start with Burthorpe.

08-Jul-2023 16:17:15

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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"So, why am I simply relabeling all of those teleport locations to extended tutorial instances rather than the locales themselves?"


What "extended tutorial instances"? The new school RS3 Tutorial Island, Davendale, Ashdale and Um aren't instances. We have all kinds of open world interactions with other new players

I am 100% 'New Player Guild" won't be an instance. F2P and P2P won't really matter in the "New Player" stage, but of course, after F2P graduated from the New Player Guild, they probably have to convert to members to get the full xp. Combat Academy is F2P but when new players graduated from it and want to move onto Hero's Guild they need to buy membership.

08-Jul-2023 16:20:25 - Last edited on 08-Jul-2023 16:23:31 by Dilbert2001

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Still.
Davendale and Ashdale and Tutorial Island were explicitly created for the player's first experience.
They exist in a way that narratively sets them apart for that.

Um isn't setup that way.


I know one could argue that Lumbridge and Burth/Taverly are not setup like Ashdale or Davendale, and that is true.
But, you didn't necessarily complete anything to arrive there. There was already a thriving community present. and it still has the "beginner area" feel as well as all of the content is explicitly designed for a new player.

Um is dead and empty on arrival (no pun intended.)

08-Jul-2023 22:18:43 - Last edited on 08-Jul-2023 22:20:38 by Deltaslug

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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That's...not what I meant by instances. I had thought that the explanation of each of the distinctly non-instanced tutorials as better teleport locations than simply "nearby cities" would have made that clear by the time you got to the quote you cited, but I'm sorry if I wasn't crystal on that point.

By "instance", I meant as in "an example" or "a specific happening" of something, in this case places where certain pieces of content (Arch, paying death costs, presumably Necromancy, opting in and out of PvP, etc.) are given a tutorial or at the very least a brief explanation of some kind.

A "New Player's Guild" would be best suited for pointing brand new adventurers toward areas where they can learn about various skills, activities, and facilities needed to fully enjoy the RuneScape experience - not as a layover flight location from whatever the tutorial is to the lodestones they were already going to find eventually anyway. Now, you can achieve both simply by rewarding the same thing with more relevant teleport locations.
---

I can't fault Dilbert for specifying that Um will feature some sort of tutorial for the skill the city is associated with. While all of us are probably already aware Um is going to be more of a long-term work-in-progress for an account for much longer in its progression, the tutorial aspect is probably very important.

Without Um's tutorial phase completed, the player can't do rituals, and without the ritual site, many players (Irons, as well as pretty much every one else depending on how close to the skill's release the problem surfaces) won't be able to access the materials needed for the combat pillar of Necromancy.

In the same way Necromancy could be the foundation for the next shift in the combat system as a whole, Um's tutorial experience most certainly can at the very least loosely inspire how the New Player Guild interacts with Questing or playing RS.
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09-Jul-2023 05:44:51 - Last edited on 09-Jul-2023 05:50:47 by H 1 L D A

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