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~Arbitrary Combat~

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A  Cole
Nov Member 2003

A  Cole

Posts: 14,761 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
What's with the arbitrary combat in the "New Foundations" quest?

Why are skillers locked out of yet another skilling update?

Why is there no skilling alternative to clearing out the zombies?

Fair enough, lock higher level content behind combat, but why is the very basic content automatically combat locked?


~A~

13-Feb-2023 11:18:23

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ring of recoil doesn't work? I mean if not, I guess it should, since this thing is supposed to be the pures bypass for low levelled combat.

But - just because of you guys do exist, shouldn't be a reason why they can't add low levelled combat content at all. And if they say you have to clear out a place before you can build there - welp, it was the creative choice of the designer, that should be allowed - especially considering it is a dangerous region lorewise.

I mean - he also could have added an option of you paying some merc doing the job for you or so... but all in all - I do think the ring of recoil should be allowed to work for that.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
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13-Feb-2023 16:04:31 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2023 16:13:44 by Rikornak

A  Cole
Nov Member 2003

A  Cole

Posts: 14,761 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
My point is that the combat seemed very arbitrary. Why have it at all, if not to block skillers?

I ended up using 10x Death Touched Darts. It's not a cheap fix, but I'm not convinced I necessarily had to do this. I don't know about rings of recoil, but my friend ended up getting level 4 combat using these after returning to the game after some time away. I've not heard of them being used as a method of killing things for a very long time.

It's not the only time skilling methods have been locked out due to combat requirements. The Fletching and Firemaking training at Anachronia that was recently released also blocked skillers from accessing it.

Surely the best outcome for everyone is to allow all players to access the content, but lock higher levelled / more rewarding content behind whatever requirements you like.


~A~

13-Feb-2023 16:14:28

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Okay let's go a step down: You're trying to build in a dangerous area. Basically most lore sources in the game refer to this area as that, that certainly wasn't something that quest randomly/arbritarily came up with.

The concrete scenario for that matter is, that the previous expedition has been slaughtered by things living in this dangerous area . Of course you have to clear out the space first before you can build - or do you want to be constantly attacked, while doing something in that area?

Of course that isn't really represented by the things you had to clear out on ingame terms (yeah sure *everybody* with a freshly created account should be able to do that quest), but ingame and lore terms usually differ for various reasons (albeit the game usually says NPCs extremely pale in contrast to the player character). But yeah - having to clear out something, makes it more believeable in contrast to encountering nothing at all (just because some non-combat pure doesn't like to fight at all).

And let's be honest - part and parcel of being a non-combat pure (and literally any other specialized account build - be it tileman, area restricted or whatever you may call it) is trying to push as far as you can with your self imposed restrictions. And I mean this makes it pretty impressive to watch or read about - not some ranting about a demand of having content adjusted to those self restricted things. If the ring of recoil hasn't worked, you obviously tried to find out your limits by using darts - which isn't a bad thing regarding your challenge as a whole - you saw an obstacle - and overcame it. Challenges like this rely on profound game knowledge - or at least they should...
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

13-Feb-2023 16:28:33 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2023 16:59:30 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,258 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It just becomes an issue, if non-combat pures are to blame, if designers aren't able to put meaningful rewards, that aren't exactly combat related, behind content, that involves (a slight amount of) combat. And it's always non-combat pures, I haven't really seen a demand like this by any other kind of specialized account - those just try to get as far as possible. And if they're done, they think about the next challenge.

A  Cole said :
I don't know about rings of recoil, but my friend ended up getting level 4 combat using these after returning to the game after some time away. I've not heard of them being used as a method of killing things for a very long time.

~A~


It's easy enough to try this out on a different account, if you literally rely on gaining no experience at all.

Wiki says this:

"The ring of recoil can be used to kill monsters without gaining combat experience. Players can avoid gaining combat experience by making sure they splash the enemy (with auto-retaliate off). As long as they do absolutely no physical damage to the enemy, they will not gain experience. "

I don't know for sure if this is true, but even without playing a non-combat pure myself, I do know this thing is used for this specific issue. And if I want to play it safe I would try this out with an account, that isn't ruined just because he got a few experience points in an unwanted skill.

It's generally extremely dangerous engaging with content that is new and may do things - sometimes even unpredicted (They say 'never play on patch day' after all). But this is why you try it out first with an account, that isn't restricted in that fashion - or wait for experience reports of other players. HCIM also don't jump into new bosses first (or any potentially dangerous content). Sure they can try, but this easily can end up ending their challenge, so they're usually not that reckless.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

13-Feb-2023 16:40:17 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2023 17:07:15 by Rikornak

A  Cole
Nov Member 2003

A  Cole

Posts: 14,761 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Indeed we're stepping into a dangerous area, and with that there a multiple ways to kill an enemy.

There are plenty of examples where skillers do not have to directly engage in fighting the enemy. Troll Invasion is one such example. Something like this would allow access to the base content.

If Jagex wish to lock higher levelled content, or more rewarding content, behind combat, they can do so at another stage. But to leave skillers out completely is where it is wrong, in my opinion.

Please don't confuse this thread as being a rant about limiting ourselves. If that was the case, I would be ranting about Prifddinas till the cows come home. I am merely pointing out that an update directed towards skillers in fact locks those skillers out of the content - and not for the first time.

I personally don't care about more rewarding content. I simply would like more diversified methods of training, even if those methods are worse than those I already have access to. Give me access to crap rates, and lock the better rates behind combat, and I won't complain.

As for using other accounts to experiment on, I have one account and one account alone. If I'm not certain about something, I simply don't do it.


~A~

13-Feb-2023 17:01:37

Awberry
Jul Member 2021

Awberry

Posts: 70 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I would also understand if the premise of the fort was combat but its not. Its a SKILLING hub so why is combat REQUIRED when this is literally the only part of its entirety that needs combat. seems like a completely unnecessary portion to keep skillers away.

13-Feb-2023 20:42:24

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Who said Fort Forinthry is a skilling only content?

"This new adventure will integrate skilling, questing, and combat, and is expected to arrive around mid-February!"


https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/2023-sneak-peek-reveals#SecondTab

13-Feb-2023 20:59:06

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,311 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Awberry said :
I would also understand if the premise of the fort was combat but its not. Its a SKILLING hub so why is combat REQUIRED when this is literally the only part of its entirety that needs combat. seems like a completely unnecessary portion to keep skillers away.


Perhaps you haven't followed through the dialogue of the King and Bill, the new Master of Blueprints then. They clearly told us the premise of the Fort is to protect their Kingdom from the Zamorakian forces from the Wilderness and Daemonheim. They also said it is a critical location for strategy regarding the Eastern Land.

13-Feb-2023 21:02:07

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