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Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I wanted to open a discussion in reply to A Friend's video from yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYUySpgXcAw
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/hdj50p/revs_to_be_moved_from_cave_mod_ash/


There are 5 quotes from A Friend I'd like to reply to:

"Toxicity of clans protecting worlds"


PVP Clans have always fought for domination. A lot of the so called toxicity is propaganda from the Clans trying to get people to hate them. I'm sure you could name a few of the most hated Clans in the game. This is how they get their fame. The more people talk about them trying to team up to destroy them, the more people fear them, the stronger people think they are. A lot of it is really bullshit Pkers say for shit giggles trolling people saying they're weak. And the saddest part of it all is the majority of the RuneScape community has fallen for the joke and see it as a problem. In reality, a lot of it has been healthy for the game encouraging people to join a PVP clan and learn PVP.

As long as toxicity remains within the game, people are happy. Many of us simply don't want to see any more of the illegal shit some clans have engaged in as we remain neutral.
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Pescao6
of
El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
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Discord: Pescao6#0001

23-Jun-2020 22:18:46

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"Venezuelans farming gold"


There are over 60 clans on Old School RuneScape that speak only Spanish and most of them have hundreds of members. Unlike the RuneScape 3 Spanish Community, the Old School RuneScape Spanish Community is pretty united. Many people are double clanners and many of the leaders know each other. The majority are not Venezuelans and don't engage in any sort of real world trading, but many of them do participate in different forms of PVP whether it's Clan Wars, Wilderness PKing or both. It's hard to say who coined the term "gold farming Venezuelans." My impression at first was that there were a lot of racist gold farmers who wanted to create an enemy to kill to take out the competition. All the English speakers teaming up against all of the Spanish speakers sounds like a plausible explanation. If it wasn't racist pkers that started it, the latin clans spamming "Venezuela" for shit giggles just made the rest of the PVP clans start referring to them as "vennies". I honestly blame those purple wearing Zarosians, but Zamorakians like myself would say such things just to create chaos.

"You have to pay some clan money so they don't kill you"


People paying for protection is the largest scam in RuneScape history. I honestly can't believe some people fall for it. It should be common sense there is no protection on the Wilderness.

"What could be done to remove revenants?"


If it's not broken, don't fix it. I like revenants. It's a good feeding ground. On an average pk trip, you can make 1m+ gp just killing some noobs. Why take away the best money making method for PVP? That's like saying cox and tob should be removed because it's creating too much money for PVMers.
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Pescao6
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El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
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Discord: Pescao6#0001

23-Jun-2020 22:19:01 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2020 00:45:34 by Pescao6

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"A solution to stop protection"


The solution to stop protection is to wait it out. There are new growing Wilderness PK Clans every month. Many of the so called protection clans have shut down because they can't compete. As we speak, there is a large group of PVP clans who have decided to share their hidden pk tactics with the rest of the community in an attempt to encourage new people to join PVP. The OSRS and RS3 wikis need a lot of work from what we've seen, but the information is getting released.

With the growth of PVP in OSRS and many of the old RS3 PVP Clans supporting the Clan Wars Community, this means PVP is growing once again not only in OSRS but also in RS3. I hope Jagex doesn't ruin the game just as the PVP community is finally beginning to heal from years of Jagex ignoring PVP.
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Pescao6
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El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
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Discord: Pescao6#0001

23-Jun-2020 22:19:18

Kentt
Dec Member 2023

Kentt

Posts: 12,115 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Pescao6 said :
In reality, a lot of it has been healthy for the game encouraging people to join a PVP clan and learn PVP. I agree with your premise, but whole-heartedly disagree with your conclusion on this. Yes PvP clans do this, yes it is propaganda, yes it gets people talking about them, but no - it is not good for the game . Understanding their behavior doesn't justify their actions. Even if the toxicity is a facade to look tough, it is still toxicity . People may initially check out PvP for the novelty those clans inadvertently(?) create, but soon scatter and want nothing to do with "those people."

Even worse, is when a clan's reputation leaks out from RuneScape and appears in the broader gaming platform. Clans like CPK, RoT, and others simply make us look bad . If someone who doesn't play RS heard about them, they would assume such behavior is typical of RS clans. Ultimately, news about "toxic clans" scares off potential new players, and gives clans in general a bad name.

Pescao6 said :
"Venezuelans farming gold"
I'm not really going to comment on this one too deeply because well.....expressing my (political) opinions on this situation in the past has resulted in members of the alt-right sending me death threats. Obviously, racist players need to be dealt with because they're attacking a large part of the community.

Pescao6 said :
"You have to pay some clan money so they don't kill you"
And yet, this goes on, so clearly some unscrupulous clans are making money off this. We spend our time sitting here asking "Who in their right mind would fall for THAT," while players fall victim to Pmod offers every day. You can't fix stupid, but you can ban players who take advantage of stupid.
Viking Clan Founder

24-Jun-2020 01:47:58 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2020 01:48:59 by Kentt

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kentt said :
[Many] clans simply make us look bad .
I once had a conversation with a leader of a clan I didn't get along with. He told me, "I love it when people talk bad about me; it just makes me more famous." Think about what that means as you mention other people in conversations.

Kentt said :
Obviously, racist players need to be dealt with because they're attacking a large part of the community.
Vocal individuals do not reflect a growing majority. There are things clan leaders can do such as change their rules, ranks and the way they handle toxicity within their clans. There is little we can do about stuff that happens outside our clans.

Kentt said :
Ultimately, news about "toxic clans" scares off potential new players, and gives clans in general a bad name.
Jagex could do a better job at handling the situation. I asked for months if a JMod would meet with me and other clan leaders, but I got no response. They basically told me to use the CLF. I doubt they're reading this. If they are reading this, I doubt they're going to discuss with the CLF what can be done about it.

Kentt said :
You can't fix stupid, but you can ban players who take advantage of stupid.
I can ban them from my clan, but Jagex isn't banning them from the game.
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Pescao6
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El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
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Discord: Pescao6#0001

24-Jun-2020 05:31:23 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2020 17:46:04 by Pescao6

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
:) I got up today and I was thinking...

What would happen if we had something like Rev Caves in RS3?

Would some of the OSRS PVP Clans return to RS3 to claim dominance over there?
Would some of the PVM Clans dared to venture into the Wilderness?

There were definitely some problems with Warbands. The whole thing about not being available all of the time meant that only clans who were available at certain hours would be able to participate in it. Also the whole thing about it being about xp instead of about making gp which is what PKers want.

I don't even know if such a change would attract people to PVP in RS3 again. I went to Clan Wars in RS3 a few times and the way you die so quickly is a bit silly. At least in OSRS, if you're in Revenant Caves and a clan comes you can wear a Dinh's bulwark and have a good chance of escaping. But PVP in RS3 is so overpowered that 2 people attacking you is enough to kill you within seconds. O_o
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Pescao6
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El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
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Discord: Pescao6#0001

24-Jun-2020 23:52:40

Torreoria
Mar Member 2005

Torreoria

Posts: 287 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There are quite a few discords with clan leaders and jmods but nothing comes from it.
Streamers get more attention. Streamers do not do multi-pvp. They do singles.

We have a Wildy again. Players created the "game within the game", not Jagex. It's up to the pvp clans to do it again. A hub is needed.

There is a difference in toxicity when a clan spams "How's your mom, Torr" the day after she died and they knew this versus "you suck". My ignore list is full.

It would help if the scripts, plug-ins, etc were removed. Those cause unfair game play. An unfair game is not fun to play.
Zero Tolerance - P2P PK clan - "Turning White Dots to Red Dots Since 2009"

25-Jun-2020 01:39:08 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2020 03:12:35 by Torreoria

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Torreoria said :
There are quite a few discords with clan leaders and jmods but nothing comes from it. (...) A hub is needed.
I'm on a few of those as well. But nobody talks in there. Most clan leaders only pay attention to their own clan or clans they know. Indeed, a hub is needed. But where do you even start one and who do you allow access to it?

If you look at RuneScape 3, the RS3 discord created a hub for communities. In reality, the communities mentioned there are simply really large clans that allow guests. Clan leaders have a hub which is this forum, but OSRS clans aren't allowed access, RS3 clans that operate on friends chats aren't allowed access, new clans aren't allowed access. This restriction madness is why people left the RuneScape Official Forums and went to websites like Zybez.

I personally got tired of looking for a hub somewhere else. I just started inviting people to my discord. Currently we have ~80 Reps who are community owners, clan leaders, high council members, warlords, pmods, youtubers, streamers, etc. It's interesting what you learn from people who manage different kinds of groups. This is really what is needed - a RuneScape Community Network like the one Jagex planned to do with Google+ but got shut down.
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Pescao6
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El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
~
Discord: Pescao6#0001

28-Jun-2020 14:58:37 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2020 15:05:30 by Pescao6

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Torreoria said :
Streamers get more attention. Streamers do not do multi-pvp. They do singles.
A few days ago, I was talking to a streamer about the Revenant Clans. He said, "Pescao, you don't understand the Protection Clans. Those people own those worlds. Prove me wrong, and try to take a world from one of them for 24 hours." Then he showed me a bunch of the 2000+ Total worlds which are "protected" and mostly controlled by 1 clan or another.

Here is the thing about that. If people wanted to, they could host a war on one of those worlds and nobody would be able to offer any sort of protection probably for 2-3 days because it's going to become a feeding ground and some clans are not going to stop returning until everyone else clears out. Whoever remains if it wasn't the clan that was already there would probably become the new big whale in that world. How many worlds can these clans really control? Maybe 1-3 at most given their members. They're not going to go hunting for more if nobody is bothering them on the worlds they're already at. Some of them have done alliances and whatnot, but it's more under the lines of don't bother us we don't bother you.

Some of the clans are only strong because they have a small group of people with high levels and expensive gear. Say for example, if you removed the total level requirement for worlds... do you think many of these strong clans would last a few weeks against some of the larger clans with a bunch of low levels? This is happening regardless of whether Jagex removes the total level for worlds requirement or not. In a few years, more people will have higher total levels. By then many clans will have moved up or down the food chain.
*
Pescao6
of
El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
~
Discord: Pescao6#0001

28-Jun-2020 14:58:46

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Torreoria said :
We have a Wildy again. Players created the "game within the game", not Jagex. It's up to the pvp clans to do it again.
And that's the thing. Back in 2007, Jagex removed the Wildy. They didn't understand the clans that were in the wildy. If Jagex removes the Revenant Caves in OSRS or changes them in a way, they're just going to be repeating history. There is no need to do that when there is an entire growing ecosystem that lives in the Wilderness.

Torreoria said :
There is a difference in toxicity when a clan spams "How's your mom, Torr" the day after she died and they knew this versus "you suck". My ignore list is full.
Some clans are really really toxic. They take things out of the game, they use and abuse whatever they know about you.

But looking at the majority, most of the toxicity is saying people you suck, you're weak, racist crap most of which I filter with the profanity filter in-game and ignore outside of the game on discord servers, twitter and youtube. It's not pretty, but war is never pretty and player killing has always been a part of this game. And some people get so used to it, that's like... look at the Spanish speaking clans, you're going to call me a Venezuelan gold farmer? Then I'm going to spam Venezuela whenever I see you or someone else because it's going to annoy you more than it's going to annoy us.

Apparently we can no longer post NSFW content on the CLF here, so I'll just mention that RuneScape PKers are a lot like our boyz in green from 1dchan. A bunch of them are ugly looking trolls, but if you're one of them PKers you gain some love for the PVP community even if you don't agree with the way some of them behave.
*
Pescao6
of
El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
~
Discord: Pescao6#0001

28-Jun-2020 14:59:00 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2020 15:02:58 by Pescao6

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