RuneScape Forum Archive | Why not make new Rune altars?

Dan-i-el

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So, by now everyone is likely aware that the current RC altars scattered across Gielinor (+cosmic on Zanaris), will one day, deplete of runic energy and cease functioning.

Well, with the Gods returning, Two of which we know are at least as strong as, if not more so, than Guthix, who made the altars in the first place, why can't we just make more?
Runecrafting altars work by being imbued with the surrounding energy of the local environment, e.g. the Law altar on Saradomin's island of Entrana, or the blood altar in Vampyr country.

As far as we know, there is literally nothing stopping the Gods from just making more, or maybe even simply finding a way to allow more energy to constantly flow in, rather than a one-time imbuing type thing (Maybe take some tips from how Divination/anima mundi manipulation works). They have motive, because well...easier access to runes = easier access to magic for their followers, and to be without magic is a massive disadvantage on Gielinor.
Even the most mundane factions, such as dwarves, who are literally cursed, still find needs for magic in Enchantments for example.

In fact, we may not even need a God at all, it should be entirely possible for a sufficiently powerful Runecrafter, or a group of wizards, to simply imbue new altars in appropriate locations, heck, they don't even need to be on Gielinor, just anywhere that has the right type of elemental energy. Alternatively, as I said earlier, find a way to keep the existing altars constantly supplied with a flowing source of runic power.

The Runespan is of course, there, but not every faction is on good terms with Saradmonists, and even then, having them restricted to one location, whilst good for the tower, would severely damage other organisations and factions by limiting supply lines and rune sources.

24-Oct-2020 19:52:36

AttilaSquare

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A wonderful question!

I think it was humans mages, not gods, who made the runecrafting altars. And even though we have descriptions of the creation of the altars, I wonder if we are still able to do the same. I have a hunch that the descriptions we have are problematically anachronistic and can’t help us to build new altars today.

I wrote an account of this some years ago:
AttilaSquare said :

...It has been said recently among the Moon Clan that those who constructed the runecrafting altars brought large blocks of rune essence to locations especially strong in specific magical elements and there focused their thoughts on the specific elements until the blocks of rune essence adopted the same orientation, becoming the runecrafting altars as they were until their recession in the 5th age.

(12) This account strikes me as anachronistic in several ways - it does not speak of spirits; it does not indicate why the structures were built, nor why these were in the form of altars; it assigns significant agency and the source of power to those who constructed the altars; it presupposes knowledge of the magical elements; it provides no insight into runes or runecrafting. In short, it is a modern reconstruction of ancient events, and in it the principle of technology is at work - for the means always precede the ends: the ancient mages possess blocks of rune essence, spiritual power, and knowledge; and they seek further means for magical practice through the altars, i.e. runestones, while no purpose for them is specified.

25-Oct-2020 03:19:11

AttilaSquare

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AttilaSquare said :

(13) In contrast, consider the following alternative account of the construction of the runecrafting altars: The sorcerers who followed V journeyed the world seeking and attending to the spirits at work in their own hearts. They had begun to experiment with runestones and rune essence but possessed no clear account of the full range of magical elements to be found in Gielinor. Occasionally a sorcerer would come upon a place in which she enjoyed exceptionally clear insights into the spirit guiding her and was prompted to build an altar. The block of rune essence and its capacity for transformation symbolized for her her own capacity for receptivity to and transformation by the spirit there. The altar thereafter invited all passersby to reflect upon the spirit of the place and its work in them - it also thereby sustained the presence of those spirits and their altars in the world.

(14) The altars became places of pilgrimage, where the people of Gielinor went to gain deeper insight into the spirits of the world. The pilgrims brought with them small chunks of rune essence to place upon the altars - the pilgrims sought an inner transformation through their attentiveness to the spirit, as well as a visible transformation of their rune rocks so that they might be reminded of their experience there. These runestones later served to direct their attention to the memories of those insights and experiences and thereby aided the pilgrims in the practice of sorcery...

25-Oct-2020 03:20:37

AttilaSquare

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It’s quite possible that the magic of the altars is of a kind that does not tolerate reduction to a mere means. When the main rune essence mine was rediscovered at the start of the 5th age, humans found themselves with countless runestones - likely so much more than they had imagined possible that they could not but re-conceive of the altars apart from the traditional ends associated with them.

A group of Fremennik took offense at the re-conception of the altars as something like runestone factories rather than as places of pilgrimage, and embarked on the runecrafting crusades. The crusaders maintained the ancient respect for the altars. And therefore, for their sake, the magic of the altars remained in Gielinor. That is, until the year 62.

When Gunnar and his army destroyed the body altar, they demonstrated that the ancient understanding and respect for the altars had disappeared from their hearts. Unwittingly, they had succumbed to the worldview of their enemies, conceiving the altars as mere factories for runestones. No longer did the ancient meaning of the altars remain in the world. Being of such magic that does not tolerate such disrespect, the altars receded from the world.

Today, they exist only in shadow. The proper relationship to the altars is still possible, if not for world of Gielinor then for certain individuals in our world. Unfortunately - if Martin Heidegger is to be believed - “world-withdrawal and world-decay can never be undone” (“Origin of the Work of Art”). I’m not sure I agree, but certainly new altars cannot be built without a new and fundamental experience of awe from which follows the inspiration to build (precisely) an altar .

So, for the same reason that the altars seceded from the world and that our access to them continues to decay, we may not be able to rebuild them today - not until the causes of the current situation have been addressed. Of course, this is just one interpretation.

25-Oct-2020 03:23:00

AttilaSquare

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Again - great question. I hope there is discussion here!

25-Oct-2020 03:23:20

Dan-i-el

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Apologies for the late response.

I took a trip to the Soul Altar today and noticed something that only further supports my idea of creating new altars.

With the Soul Altar having been damaged, somebody has set up some device that requires essence to be charged with, in order to safely allow the surrounding soul energy to flow through the altar again.

This is evidence that Runecrafting organisations are getting so close to potentially making brand new altars from scratch, as this is evidence that they already know how to channel the surrounding energies into an altar, then back into a rune.

The process is nearly understood, now it's just a matter of finding a suitable method of creating a physical altar itself, although presumably rune/pure essence is the answer. If this makeshift device at the soul altar is capable of keeping it going after being damaged, then imagine what an organised effort to make a full-scale essence charger could achieve.

Although, unless a suitable location is decided upon, it risks ending up similar to another Ourania (ZMI) altar, although that's not necessarily a bad thing, runes are still runes.

29-Oct-2020 19:49:35

Oct

2018

Shadowdor

Posts: 2 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Intriguing question. My theory stands opposite as I think the gods themselves are the reason why runecrafting alters are fading away. Also, making more may cause the spellbook to overflow if that makes sense and may even cause more territorial disputes. At the same time, MORE FUN SKILLS!

01-Nov-2020 08:42:42

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

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There can be one more RC altar - the Quintessence Altar.

Why isn't a Quintessence Altar yet? Two reasons basically:

(1) Quintessence, the 5th element, can only be found high up in the sky. We know this element can be found in Stormguard as well as Amardyl's old throne. Stormguard was destroyed in the God War era but V was not involved in the God War, hence he probably didn't notice the existence of Quintessence so he wasn't involved in making a Quintessence Altar.

(2) Quintessence can be used to make god killing items. Hence, even the Elder Gods who are in the know of such 5th element won't want mortals and other gods to know the secrets.

Alternatively, the Quitessence Altar or some kind of mass production mechanism of Quintessene may exist actually, but the one(s) who created it is still experimenting with the god-killing element and haven't come up with a finished product yet. Who will that person/group be? Logically, the boss who hired Howl in the 3rd Age... but who will he/they be?

27-Nov-2020 23:07:40

Deltaslug

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Could vs should.
And I think some of your history is a little off.

Simple answer is that yes, new Runecrafting Altars could be made.
We know that mortals have managed to make a few.
Stealing Creation is a late 5th Age discovery, and we can mold sacred clay into runes.
Within Dungeoneering, we have the Ruencrafting Altars there that allow you to create any essence into runes
I take these with a grain of salt.
SC you are working with primordial clay, the very building blocks of the universe.
Dungeoneering was originally intended by the devs to be standalone game (Funorb?) than to be shoehorned into RS. At the same time, Daemonheim has its own warped source of energy flowing about the place.

Now for the rest of it .... the Runecrafting Altars themselves are not the source of power.
The devs have stated that the power from the rest of cosmos sort of filters into Gielinor.
The locations of the altars are simply the nexus points of it.
From the book of Nex about Virtus:
Virtus was attuned to magic from a young age, and he taught himself to siphon from a magical rift in the swamps of Lumbridge. The volume of magic he took from the area was immense, drawing unwittingly from a world that was connected to Gielinor. The transfer of magic drew the attention of Zaros, and Nex was sent to investigate, where she was quick to recognise the young man's potential.
This is just the Water Altar. Then you have the rest of the nexuses.

As Wizard Finix has theorized (keep in mind it hasn't been proven or disproven yet), that as you mentioned, the power is drying up.

28-Nov-2020 20:33:49

Deltaslug

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The thing is ... it's not necessarily the altars that are drying up, it could be the nexus point of the energy.
And frankly, we might not understand why ... and there might not be a single reason.
There are several factors to take into consideration.

- The flow of energy from somewhere else
Gilienor is supposed to be this perfect world created by the Elder Gods. They wake up, eat the anima, then go on and repeat the cycle of remaking the universe.
Anima/Energy has to come from somewhere.
The elder gods are waking up, if a bit sooner than expected.
The influx of anima from the rest of the cosmos could simply be one of the first signs that the world the Elder Gods would eat is ... ready.
Sort of like when you're cooking a meal, you reach a point where you turn off/down the heat and stop adding seasoning.

- The flow of energy was diverted
We have the Runespan which was only discovered in the late 5th Age (2012 IRL). It has all the runic energies flowing in it.
It's possible that chunks of the flow of energy from the cosmos were gradually (and unintentionally) redirected here (assuming ofc that this isn't one of the initial sources of runic energy).
Either by energy going TO Runespan or because our constant Runecrafting from the source of runic energy ... the flow to the altars was impacted.

- The effect of Runecrafting
Let's assume that the natural flow of energy to the nexus points is like a flowing river.
The runecrafting altars are artificially added there sort of like a dam with a spigot.
Now the altars have had A LOT of usage at scattered points in time.
Also, no one has been maintaining them.
By artifically siphoning out LOTS of runes for energy AND affecting the natural flow AND not properly maintained it, it's possible we sort of ... broke ... these points of energy.

Any one of these would be "bad".
A combination of all of these would mean replacing the altars would be pointless.

28-Nov-2020 20:33:55 - Last edited on 28-Nov-2020 20:43:15 by Deltaslug

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Why not make new Rune altars?