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Saradomin on Witchcraft

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Kopaka
Dec Member 2023

Kopaka

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Why do you think they would be against witchcraft?

The Fremmenik have very clear dialogue in their quests explaining that they hate magic.

I've never heard of any such thing with Saradominists.

Would make the Staff of Saradomin pretty bizarre.

Also the Saradomin Wizards that fight you during clue scrolls.

The Wise Old Man is a famous mage and Saradominist.

You can buy a mage staff from the White Knight armoury after the Wanted! quest.

I can't even see justification for saying the White Knights/Temple Knights are against witchcraft. Savant is one of the main NPCs you interact with during their quests and she's quite clearly very magic oriented.

The only argument I can possibly see being made is that the White Knights are all melee users, and you might expect to see at least a few wizards around since magic is quite useful. This is done primarily for the aesthetic in my opinion, and not because in-game lore indicates they have anything against wizards or magic. The aesthetic being heavily medieval knight inspired pseudo historical castle aesthetic.

But as a final point...unless I'm misinterpreting your meaning, it feels like you're toeing the line on some touchy issues surrounding gender to say that the makeover mage is 'very unholy'. How is that any more unholy than other wizards? It's pretty fair to say that a necromancer could be considered unholy, but a transformation wizard?

06-Jun-2021 07:08:56 - Last edited on 06-Jun-2021 07:10:26 by Kopaka

Warmonk Dan

Warmonk Dan

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Kopaka said :
Why do you think they would be against witchcraft?

The Fremmenik have very clear dialogue in their quests explaining that they hate magic.

I've never heard of any such thing with Saradominists.

Would make the Staff of Saradomin pretty bizarre.

Also the Saradomin Wizards that fight you during clue scrolls.

The Wise Old Man is a famous mage and Saradominist.

You can buy a mage staff from the White Knight armoury after the Wanted! quest.

I can't even see justification for saying the White Knights/Temple Knights are against witchcraft. Savant is one of the main NPCs you interact with during their quests and she's quite clearly very magic oriented.

The only argument I can possibly see being made is that the White Knights are all melee users, and you might expect to see at least a few wizards around since magic is quite useful. This is done primarily for the aesthetic in my opinion, and not because in-game lore indicates they have anything against wizards or magic. The aesthetic being heavily medieval knight inspired pseudo historical castle aesthetic.

But as a final point...unless I'm misinterpreting your meaning, it feels like you're toeing the line on some touchy issues surrounding gender to say that the makeover mage is 'very unholy'. How is that any more unholy than other wizards? It's pretty fair to say that a necromancer could be considered unholy, but a transformation wizard?

I should have added that the witch in Rimmington said that she's obviously a witch and she thinks that Falador would send witch hunters after her any day - something along those lines. That's why I had the impression that witchcraft wasn't okay with Saradomists. But you've raised great points on why that's probably not the case - thanks. Maybe that witch is just paranoid. Or maybe witchcraft isn't allowed but other magic is. Maybe it's not the same... Hmm...

06-Jun-2021 08:06:20

Roland Lyons
Mar Member 2014

Roland Lyons

Posts: 3,475 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Warning, this is going to be headcanon on my part, but I like to think the term "witch" defines an outlaw mage as opposed to legally sanctioned and certified mages trained by the Wizard's Tower or Magic Guild. IE magic doesn't immediately become "witchcraft" until magic is used for illegal ends. Magic can be dangerous of course and needs to be kept in check.

So maybe Saradominists only trust mages trained by their specific institutions which forbid evil magic such as necromancy. And this could probably extend to the laws of the three main kingdoms(Misthalin, Asgarnia, and Kandarin) as well.

The witch hunters you refer to from that quest may just be a special task force or group of enforcers employed by the local king or regional lord, or possibly even the Church of Saradomin to root out, apprehend, or neutralize said outlaw mages. And if this were the case, it would certainly make sense for them to use magic themselves. It may or may not be entirely religious in reasoning for wanting to remove such mages. While the Church certainly forbids necromancy, there's a reason Icthlarin and Death dislike necromancers as well because of how necromancy fucks with the souls of the departed. Even Charos, a character who for all we know isn't religious at all, expresses disdain for necromancers.

In short:
Mage/Magician - Catchall term for spellcasters and magic users.
Wizard - Legally certified wizard that's a member of the Wizard's Tower and/or Mage's Guild.
Witch - Outlaw mage, may be using magic illegally or for criminal ends.(Witch is possibly the more feminine term for this, while something like 'warlock' may be more of a masculine term.)
Necromancer - Highly dangerous outlaw mage that practices necromancy, a forbidden art.
I will protect Gielinor. Zaros has no love for its people.

-Saradomin, Polemarchos Autokrator

07-Jun-2021 16:27:40 - Last edited on 07-Jun-2021 17:02:20 by Roland Lyons

Kopaka
Dec Member 2023

Kopaka

Posts: 3,578 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm a fan of that headcanon.

Would love to see them flesh out more of that kind of stuff in game, even just with the existence of the 'witchhunters'.

I wonder though, are all of the witches from the Swept Away quest outlaws? Betty appears to run a fairly legit business, albeit in a dodgy neighbourhood.

It does seem to fit, though. I would not expect a wizard's duel between Betty and Ariane to be 'strictly by the books'. Though that would go for both sides, haha. Is Ariane a wizard-gone-rogue?

08-Jun-2021 00:13:14

A Mighty

A Mighty

Posts: 2,337 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Kopaka said :
I'm a fan of that headcanon.

Would love to see them flesh out more of that kind of stuff in game, even just with the existence of the 'witchhunters'.

I wonder though, are all of the witches from the Swept Away quest outlaws? Betty appears to run a fairly legit business, albeit in a dodgy neighbourhood.



I like it too.

And they still wouldn't like Betty because she's (likely) not Saradominist and didn't train at the Saradominist institutions.
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

08-Jun-2021 03:39:25

Amascutian

Amascutian

Posts: 546 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Roland Lyons said :

In short:
Mage/Magician - Catchall term for spellcasters and magic users.
Wizard - Legally certified wizard that's a member of the Wizard's Tower and/or Mage's Guild.
Witch - Outlaw mage, may be using magic illegally or for criminal ends.(Witch is possibly the more feminine term for this, while something like 'warlock' may be more of a masculine term.)
Necromancer - Highly dangerous outlaw mage that practices necromancy, a forbidden art.

There isn’t much difference between wizards and mages. It's true that the members of the Wizards' tower are all wizards but there are Zamorakian wizards aswell.

There is no evidence to suggest that witchcraft is contrary to Saradominism or that it's otherwise illegal or evil. The Moon Clan for example, is a group of friendly witches that freely practice magic.
So how is witchcraft different from regular magic? Witches have a cauldron in which they mix several ingredients together to cause a magical effect, therefore it doesn't require runes or spellbook.

As for necromancy, it is a Zamorakian skill. Necromancers tend to lose their sanity and become evil by practicing it. Necromancy is an incomplete resurrection which brings soulless bodies (skeletons, zombies) or bodiless souls (ghosts, revenants) or the mixture of these (ankous) to life. As we know, these creatures are often controlled by an evil necrolord.

07-Jul-2021 21:14:53 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2021 21:44:21 by Amascutian

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