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Project Rebalance: A Vision

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PangoDanger
Nov Member 2023

PangoDanger

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This thread exists to catalogue my long-winded, comprehensive, and relatively math-intensive ideas for revitalizing the so-called Dead Content of early-, mid-, and even some late-game combat.

What's Dead Content?
Dead Content is a mechanic, piece of equipment, or other technique that is underutilized relative to the preferred or "meta" option within the same class of concepts. As an example, the Dragon Spear is Dead Content compared to the Dragon Scimitar. The spear is Dead Content because it is difficult to obtain (far moreso than the scimitar, to be sure), of questionable usefulness for general purposes such as Slayer and PvP (by comparison), and lacks any particularly potent niche (with the exception of certain PK lures and that one trick in Castle Wars, of course).

That is to say, the average player will probably alch it.

Yes, it can serve as a serviceable Crush or Stab weapon for unlucky Ironmen who haven't gotten a LBS or LBA yet. But that use case is fleeting and does nothing to salvage the entire spear weapon class , which is mostly Dead Content.

So that's the motivation for this thread. Ever since I was a kid on RS, I've wanted these features - not only spears - to be more worth using. Now, with Project Rebalance on the horizon, they just might be. Things are looking promising so far with what Jagex has offered, but I'd like to give my own input, too - on the off chance my ramblings might inspire someone. And also because I'd like to discuss these ideas with other interested parties.

When discussing specific weapons, I will usually focus on the Dragon version of that weapon, but my adjustments are generally intended to apply to the entire line of that weapon type. For example, the Spear adjustments are intended to apply from the zammy spear all the way down to the bronze one.

Please note that proposed changes are given in relative values, e.g. "-10" means "10 less than current value."

22-Dec-2023 07:49:00 - Last edited on 11-Jan-2024 16:08:38 by PangoDanger

PangoDanger
Nov Member 2023

PangoDanger

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Spears

Spears have a few problems core to their current implementation:

1. Underwhelming performance in all regards compared to other options
2. No particularly useful niche for combat scenarios
3. Difficult to obtain relative to other options

I offer here a solution to problems 1 and 2.

Current Stats:
Attack: 55 (all melee)
Defense: 5 (all)
Melee Strength: 60

Proposed Changes:
Slash Defense: +20
Crush Defense: +30
Ranged Defense: -35
Most importantly,
add a passive effect to all spears.
I call it
Adaptable .



Adaptable
applies the following effects:

- When a spear is being used in the melee Attack Style that the opponent is weakest to, grant a bonus to maximum hit and minimum hit. This bonus is halved for the maximum hit boost compared to the minimum hit boost. The bonus scales with the difference in the enemy's worst and best defense rolls (more difference = more damage). The bonus is also capped by the attacker's Attack value (lower Attack = less potential damage). Finally, the bonus is decreased when used in the Slash or Crush style.

- When used in the Slash style, grant 15% recoil against melee attackers. This recoil grants combat experience and stacks additively with other forms of recoil. The recoil only applies to the enemy your character is currently trying to attack, and only to melee-type attacks. Adjacent mages and rangers are not affected. Yes, you can recoil multiple enemies by rapidly changing targets (once per tick).

- When used in the Crush style, treat the enemy as though it had 30 less Crush def. bonus. This applies before calculating the damage bonus, so you can use this feature to get damage on things like Bloodvelds.

Here's a link to a Google Doc where I dive into the specifics of the math.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/183zJZ0g-IzPwVcW6SrSrxp2xFjjn0Ffth78RGhhvrYs

22-Dec-2023 21:10:01 - Last edited on 04-Jan-2024 21:57:13 by PangoDanger

PangoDanger
Nov Member 2023

PangoDanger

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Spears, cont.

The upshot of these changes is that spears become a worthwhile weapon for lower-Strength characters and scale well with Attack, but less with Strength.

Slash and Crush defenses provide meaningful protection from the most common threats, enough to compete with a Defender in the off-hand, but not enough to compete with a proper shield.

A Ranged defense malus and no buff to Stab defense symbolize a weakness for other spear users to exploit and a general vulnerability for the melee combat-focused playstyle.

When exploiting Adaptable and using poison, the DPS output of the new spear is comparable to or higher than the Dragon Scimitar + Dragon Defender combo. The DPS output of the new spear does not scale as well with Strength as the scimitar + defender do, but it scales much better with Attack. Characters with high Strength will find the scimitar and defender to be more attractive than the spear, as they currently are. Nevertheless, it is perfectly viable to focus Attack as a primary melee stat if the new spear is your weapon of choice.

Here is a link to the spreadsheet I've been using to run calculations. It's a bit messy, but the data is there. Feel free to make copies and poke around.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Lwm0p07psjCB3H_IchQDTPK9x2Xz6kQ6Y1Z5e3s2Cf4/edit#gid=1161955272

And here's the Reddit post I made originally.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/18nk3mt/project_rebalance_a_vision_of_spears/

22-Dec-2023 21:21:13 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2023 21:33:34 by PangoDanger

PangoDanger
Nov Member 2023

PangoDanger

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Shields

With very few exceptions (spirit shields, dragonfire protection, etc.), the offhand slot is overwhelmingly dominated by equipment granting offensive bonuses. The value of such items is generally expressed in terms of how much offensive bonus they grant.

I'd like to see that change, and I propose effecting that change through a new mechanic,
Block.
It works like this:


When an attack is performed, OSRS "rolls" two dice to determine whether the attack is successful. If the attacker's roll is better than the defender's, the attack lands, and then damage is rolled.
Blocking will occur after an attacker rolls a successful hit. The attack is then rolled again, this time against the defender's shield only. If the attack "fails" at this step, the attack is blocked.

Blocking does not necessarily protect the defender from all of the attack's damage.

The strength of the block can be either Weak or Strong. A Strong block occurs when the defender's total defense is at least twice as effective as the attacker's total attack. A Weak block occurs otherwise.

The "damage" of a block (the amount reduced from the incoming attack) is rolled the same way as the strength of a normal attack, except the shield's defense value is used in place of the strength bonus, and a certain amount is subtracted from the total. The total is then divided. A smaller dividend is used for a Strong block, meaning that a Strong block has a higher maximum value. Additionally, a Strong block will always block at least 1 damage, while a Weak block has a minimum value of 0.

Thus:

- An attacker with sufficiently high strength or attack can overpower an inadequately-prepared defender's block.
- A sufficiently-prepared defender will always have effective blocking, even at very low levels, as long as his levels and equipment are appropriate.
- A poor shield will not complement good armor except against weak opponents.

04-Jan-2024 20:05:50

PangoDanger
Nov Member 2023

PangoDanger

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Shields, cont.

Blocking is strong, but it doesn't make up for the other big problem I see with shields, which is their lack of diversity.

Generally speaking, the mundane shields follow a linear progression all the way from the wooden shield up to the Dragon kiteshield. I'm not a fan of this, as it leaves square shields especially vulnerable to being outclassed; furthermore, when deciding on melee armor, the shield you take (if you take one at all, instead of a defender or similar) will generally be "the best one." So if you have a Rune kiteshield you'll always be taking that over a Rune square, and so on.

I'd like to add a third category of mundane shields, the Round shield. I'd also like to redistribute some stats in anticipation of further weapon rebalancing.

Round shields are the best against Slash attacks and decent against Stab, but weak against Crush. They also provide modest Ranged and melee attack bonuses. This shield is intended to be used by duelists.

Dragon Round shield:
Stab, Slash, Crush, Ranged Attack: 5
Magic Attack: -6 (same as other shields)

Stab Defense: 59
Slash Defense: 64
Crush Defense: 36
Magic Defense: -5
Ranged Defense: 38

Kiteshields will be changed to emphasize all-round protection with a focus on Crush.

Dragon Kiteshield:
Stab Defense: +5
Crush Defense: +9
Magic Defense: -6
Ranged Defense: +4

Square shields are best used with and against Stab weapons.

Dragon Square shield:
Stab Attack: +8
Ranged Attack: +4

Stab Defense: +19
Crush Defense: -6
Magic Defense: -5
Ranged Defense: +2

In short, kiteshields can still be used for general purposes, but round and square shields can serve more specific niches better. Kiteshields are best for absorbing Crush, square shields protect best against Stab, and round shields can deflect Slash. Round and square shields also have small offensive bonuses for certain fighting styles or weapons.

04-Jan-2024 22:05:59 - Last edited on 04-Jan-2024 22:43:05 by PangoDanger

PangoDanger
Nov Member 2023

PangoDanger

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hastae

“Hasta” is the singular term for one-handed spears as used by some Roman soldiers. Since hastae are being peddled by the barbarians, we can only assume that Gielinor’s version of Rome fell already. As a result, my suggestion for a hasta rework features a vandalized interpretation of hasta fighting techniques.

Current Stats:
Attack: 55 (all melee)
Stab, Slash, Ranged Defense: -15
Crush Defense: -12
Strength: 60

Proposed Changes:
Stab, Crush Attack: -11
Slash Attack: Removed
Ranged Attack: 69 (new)
All defense penalties: Removed
Slash Defense: 10 (new)
Strength: +6
Ranged Strength: 110* (new)

Currently, the hasta uses the Attack Styles of the spear. With my proposed changes to the spear in mind, we’ll need new ones for the hasta.

Thrust (Stab, Aggressive)
Throw (Ranged, Accurate)
Bash (Crush/Stab, Defensive)
Block (Stab, Defensive)

The hasta is intended to be used with proper shields and benefits players who have invested in Defense or Strength. As such, hasta combat benefits greatly from defensive bonuses in the offhand slot. A defender is still viable for players using the Block style or against opponents with very low defense.

Thrust removes the defensive bonuses of your equipped shield and converts its Stab Defense directly into bonus Stab Attack.
Throw grants a short ranged and slow, but powerful Ranged attack.
Crash imposes a damage penalty on your hasta (50%) and grants a double attack. The Stab Attack value of your hasta is added to your shield’s melee/ranged defenses and blocking, and you gain a secondary Crush attack.
Each of these attacks can be blocked and proc recoil.
Block is a normal attack with no unique mechanics.

*Throw can be implemented either as an infinite attack using the hasta's Strength, or as an ammo-consuming attack that uses javelins of the same material. If it uses javelins, inherit the javelins' Ranged Strength and set the hasta's to 0. I can see a case to be made for either design choice.

11-Jan-2024 15:46:58 - Last edited on 11-Jan-2024 16:22:57 by PangoDanger

PangoDanger
Nov Member 2023

PangoDanger

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hastae, cont.

Unrelated to combat, hastae and spears alike face supply issues that make them tricky to obtain. We can tackle some part of this issue by introducing the ability to convert the weapons back and forth, and at a reasonable level. Creating a hasta from a spear costs no materials, but requires higher Smithing (~15 levels higher than the weapon tier, so around 55 for Rune). Creating a spear from a hasta costs one log of the appropriate type but at a lower Smithing level (~weapon tier, so 40 for Rune). I'd like to see this apply to Dragon spears/hastae as well.

These changes are intended to create a niche for hasta use among players with particularly high Strength and Defense, or who wish to emphasize their Defense stat. The large Attack bonus provided by the hasta's Thrust style is only accessible to players who have high Defense levels. The Dragonfire shield may be able to return to relevance, as it is a square shield with considerable Strength and Defense bonuses and should therefore experience some of the changes applied to other square shields. If dragonfire is treated as a magic attack (the fire breath of chromatic dragons rolls against magic defense!), then the hasta user becomes a dragon-slaying force of nature, able to reduce damage from dragonfire while effectively slaying foes without needing to rely on prayer to mitigate melee damage.

The new hasta does not scale well with Attack, as excessive Attack yields only minimal DPS increase (if the opponent's defense is low by comparison).

Finally, the slight Slash defense increase helps differentiate our armored, trained hoplite from the unprotected rabble. Crush defense will be low with the new shield changes, so watch out for brutes with hammers, axes and maces!

For more specific mechanics and math regarding both the new shields and the new hastae, please refer to this Google Doc:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s75Ojv1gRng2g1HxQy6jyj5O9OPUkCSuKU6mLLSeGqA/edit?usp=sharing

11-Jan-2024 16:05:11 - Last edited on 11-Jan-2024 16:18:59 by PangoDanger

PangoDanger
Nov Member 2023

PangoDanger

Posts: 12 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Well, never mind all of this, looks like the forums are going down in a couple weeks...

I'll be posting the rest of this on Reddit or Discord, I suppose. On Reddit I am u/HardcastFlare, I'd rather not use Discord for longform but we'll see what happens.

12-Jan-2024 18:35:14

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