forums.rs

Forums

Account builds is a bad idea

Quick find code: 317-318-933-66269062

Montinevvra

Montinevvra

Posts: 791 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It's actually not a bad idea. It's a great one, but the proposal described in the blog is a half-assed solution. I just couldn't fit all that into the title.

Key points from the blog:
Original message details are unavailable.
you can’t opt-in to the system if you’ve already gained XP beyond the restrictions you’ve chosen Original message details are unavailable.
you can always opt-out – although you’ll regain all the XP you avoided as soon as you do
The problems:
1. Pures that already have accidental exp are still s.o.l.
2. Hackers (or you, for that matter) can still permanently fuck up your account.
3. You still have to create a new account if you want to try out different builds.

A better solution:
Let us non-destructively lower any of our skills on any account and have it be reflected in our combat level. It's not permanent, you still gain and keep all of your exp, and you can undo it whenever. Think of it as: your exp now determines your level cap. You can set your level to anything between 1 and your cap.

This means:
1. You can dust off that 2-Def pure you abandoned all those years ago.
2. Hackers (or you, for that matter) can still make you gain exp, but now you can keep playing like you hadn't.
3. You don't have to create, level up, and risk ruining a new account for each build you want to try.
4. Jagex can add achievements or other content that requires you to be under a certain level without locking anyone out. This opens up a lot of possibilities. For example, imagine a version of Castle Wars where everyone's skills are capped at 40. It would be much more balanced because a lot more people have lvl 40 than have 99. It would also create a new meta-game in finding equipment builds that work at lvl 40.
5. People more creative than me can come up with all sorts of self-imposed challenges.

14-Dec-2022 01:37:18 - Last edited on 31-Jan-2023 19:56:31 by Montinevvra

Lelouch Vi B
Jan Member 2017

Lelouch Vi B

Posts: 2,111 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
An inspired idea, but I can’t help but see a few kinks in the design.

For starters, how would this system interact with traditional PvP? Could I take my maxed account and lower its Defense to 1 and suddenly go around smacking players well under my bracket? I can already see the abuse case for players lowering themselves to CBT lv 3 to use chaos altar and other wilderness utilities like the agility course, while reducing the chances of someone attacking them. Wilderness clue step? Time to tank my CBT lv. Charging glories at the obelisk? Lv 3 CBT it is! And let’s not even talk about the number of maxed mains who will just yank their HP to 10 for Todt. This also creates some traditionally impossible builds, such as 1 Defense Barrows Gloves, as you could earn them, and just drop your Def Level, as the gloves themselves have no level req to use.

Second, I don’t see how this doesn’t immediately devalue the actual account builds. If anyone can, for example, turn themselves into a pure at will, then what’s the point of a pure account? Bragging rights? Maybe, but you can’t actually use it much because eventually, either by over leveling a different combat stat, or leveling up HP/Ranged/Magic, you will level out of your desired bracket (every pure that doesn’t already use 99HP and 99 in their primary combat style will have this issue). So when maintaining an actual pure requires so much effort, why would anyone do it over just using their maxed main with this system? It’s a bit like suggesting that you can solve Castle Wars being dead by putting all the CWars rewards in the Soul Wars shop. Like sure, that does make the rewards more available and thus, more likely to be used, but it doesn’t do anything to help CWars itself, it actually kills it off because you’ve created an easier method. Now with added
[SARCASM]
Warnings for those less astute!

Archaeology Elite Skill Suggestion

05-May-2023 14:25:05 - Last edited on 05-May-2023 14:29:54 by Lelouch Vi B

Montinevvra

Montinevvra

Posts: 791 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lelouch Vi B said :
Could I take my maxed account and lower its Defense to 1
Yes, but, so could other players. For any scenario you think of, others will think of a way to counter it. If you build for lvl 3 chaos running, I'll build for pking lvl 3 chaos runners. It opens up a whole new meta-game.

That said, I do acknowledge that there are probably some situations where this system should be restricted. You could argue that Wintertodt is such a case.

Lelouch Vi B said :
the gloves themselves have no level req
That's an easy fix.

Lelouch Vi B said :
it actually kills it off because you’ve created an easier method.
That's precisely the point. You could still create a pure account and level it up the hard way if you wanted (and Jagex could even recognize those accounts with a gold star or something), but now it's no longer a requirement. This makes more play-styles more accessible to more players, which I think is healthy for the game.

06-May-2023 01:17:27

Lelouch Vi B
Jan Member 2017

Lelouch Vi B

Posts: 2,111 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Montinevvra said :
Lelouch Vi B said :
Could I take my maxed account and lower its Defense to 1
Yes, but, so could other players. For any scenario you think of, others will think of a way to counter it. If you build for lvl 3 chaos running, I'll build for pking lvl 3 chaos runners. It opens up a whole new meta-game.

That said, I do acknowledge that there are probably some situations where this system should be restricted. You could argue that Wintertodt is such a case.
Ahh yes, just what the vast majority of players want in this game: more ways to get pked in the wild. you know, one of the few niceties about being a low lv is that you're so unlikely to get pked. I'm not sure most players are interested in adding more reasons for them to avoid the wilderness.


Montinevvra said :

Lelouch Vi B said :
the gloves themselves have no level req
That's an easy fix.
Is it though? Would raising their reqs ever pass a poll? I'm highly, highly, HIGHLY skeptical of that.

Montinevvra said :

Lelouch Vi B said :
it actually kills it off because you’ve created an easier method.
That's precisely the point. You could still create a pure account and level it up the hard way if you wanted (and Jagex could even recognize those accounts with a gold star or something), but now it's no longer a requirement. This makes more play-styles more accessible to more players, which I think is healthy for the game.

I think you misunderstand the reason official builds failed the poll. Many people DONT want the effort/prestige of making these accounts to be removed. Most of the players who actively create these accounts take pride in them and feel that if you want to enjoy one, you have to put in the effort too. Now with added
[SARCASM]
Warnings for those less astute!

Archaeology Elite Skill Suggestion

06-May-2023 01:59:33 - Last edited on 06-May-2023 02:01:47 by Lelouch Vi B

Montinevvra

Montinevvra

Posts: 791 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lelouch Vi B said :
more ways to get pked in the wild.
So, you're concerned that this would make it easier to get pked? Because your last post seemed to imply the opposite. But that's beside the point, because while I agree that the wilderness needs a rework, that's an issue that should be addressed separately. Not adding account builds isn't going to fix the wilderness.

Lelouch Vi B said :
Is it though?
Yes. They don't have to poll it. Or if they decide to poll it, and the players vote "no", then we get 1-def barrows gloves builds. The players have spoken. That's kind of the point of polls.

Lelouch Vi B said :
if you want to enjoy one, you have to put in the effort
Well, I disagree. I think accessibility is good and gatekeeping is bad. What do you think?

06-May-2023 05:21:11

Lelouch Vi B
Jan Member 2017

Lelouch Vi B

Posts: 2,111 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Montinevvra said :
Lelouch Vi B said :
more ways to get pked in the wild.
So, you're concerned that this would make it easier to get pked? Because your last post seemed to imply the opposite. But that's beside the point, because while I agree that the wilderness needs a rework, that's an issue that should be addressed separately. Not adding account builds isn't going to fix the wilderness.
Yes. And both can be true. This system would kill traditional pking, because players would modify their levels to suit the activity. And in response, pkers will do the same. Basically every pker will be forced to use Pure builds, because players will drop their levels to avoid the deadlier, higher lv builds. It hits both ways.

Montinevvra said :

Lelouch Vi B said :
Is it though?
Yes. They don't have to poll it. Or if they decide to poll it, and the players vote "no", then we get 1-def barrows gloves builds. The players have spoken. That's kind of the point of polls.

Yeah, you see the problem is your idea for this system would have to pass a poll first, and idk if you saw, but the ability for players to remove 500xp total from their account was just shot down by the community. So you're proposing we combine a far more powerful version of an already failed poll (removing xp), with another already failed poll (account builds) and you somehow think this won't make a universally unpopular concept? You wanna take 2 ideas that couldn't hit 70%, combine them, and somehow expect that mess to get 70%?

Montinevvra said :

Lelouch Vi B said :
if you want to enjoy one, you have to put in the effort
Well, I disagree. I think accessibility is good and gatekeeping is bad. What do you think?
Agreed! Now hand me my Max cape with 0 effort please! Xp grinds are for more gatekeepy than avoiding xp! Now with added
[SARCASM]
Warnings for those less astute!

Archaeology Elite Skill Suggestion

06-May-2023 05:49:54 - Last edited on 06-May-2023 05:51:36 by Lelouch Vi B

Montinevvra

Montinevvra

Posts: 791 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lelouch Vi B said :
Yes. And both can be true.
We're on the same page then. Let's fix the wilderness, and add account builds. Not necessarily at the same time.

Lelouch Vi B said :
the ability for players to remove 500xp total from their account was just shot down by the community
Right, because that idea (and their account builds one) sucked. It's what prompted me to post this in the first place.

Speculating on theoretical poll results isn't terribly productive, so if you have any constructive feedback on the idea itself, feel free to share. With your help, it might even pass the polls.

Lelouch Vi B said :
Now hand me my Max cape
I GOT YOUR MAX CAPE RIGHT HERE, LITTLE BOY. COME GET IT.

Fr tho, not the same thing. You're bad at analogies. Stop. Even if you were good at analogies, stop, because (and say it with me) analogies are not arguments .

I'mma put you down for "accessibility bad, gatekeeping good". I think that's what you're getting at. Is that okay?

06-May-2023 10:11:04

Quick find code: 317-318-933-66269062 Back to Top